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  #46  
Old 07-23-2018, 04:00 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by Tragg
Of course they are.
But you don't make personnel judgments based on whether someone is a leader...it's based on whether they can play. How many times do we have to hear about how someone is a great leader, or, even worse "good in the clubhouse"...
Leadership is organic.
Yes. By the time the team is ready to compete, it likely will need new leaders anyway.

Every time I hear about how Abreu “is worth more to the White Sox than his trade value,” I translate it as “we haven’t yet received an acceptable offer.” Which is fine, but it’s getting close to the point where the definition of “acceptable” should be re-calibrated.
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  #47  
Old 07-23-2018, 04:11 PM
jdm2662 jdm2662 is offline
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The way Abreu has been hitting the last two months, the Sox won't get an offer worth trading. Trading Abreu just to trade him makes zero sense. Unless you don't get a quality offer, I wouldn't bother.
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  #48  
Old 07-23-2018, 04:35 PM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Yes. By the time the team is ready to compete, it likely will need new leaders anyway.

Every time I hear about how Abreu “is worth more to the White Sox than his trade value,” I translate it as “we haven’t yet received an acceptable offer.” Which is fine, but it’s getting close to the point where the definition of “acceptable” should be re-calibrated.
I think the point is that "acceptable" includes his off-field value. Even if you don't think that value is huge because you believe "leadership is organic," or it's near-meaningless, it is of some value.
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Originally Posted by jdm2662 View Post
The way Abreu has been hitting the last two months, the Sox won't get an offer worth trading. Trading Abreu just to trade him makes zero sense. Unless you don't get a quality offer, I wouldn't bother.
Exactly. If he has some positive impact on the development of younger players (latin or otherwise), then he's likely worth more than say a flier type prospect.
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  #49  
Old 07-23-2018, 06:33 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Of course they are.
But you don't make personnel judgments based on whether someone is a leader...it's based on whether they can play. How many times do we have to hear about how someone is a great leader, or, even worse "good in the clubhouse"...
Leadership is organic.
But that’s just not true, across all levels of professional sports. Why do backup QBs stay active into their late 30s literally without having started a game in years? Almost every good NBA team has a few vets that never come off the bench but come back year after year. By the end of their careers, a replacement level 4-A guy would have been just as productive as Omar Vizquel or Sandy Alomar Jr. You can disagree with it but it does factor in to who makes a roster.

You’re right in that leadership is organic. But Abreu isn’t a leader just because he’s the oldest guy there. By all accounts he’s a model teammate and highly respected by many younger players, far from all of whom are Latino (). I think there’s plenty of reason to take it at face value when the Sox say he has more value to them than what his production dictate so.
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  #50  
Old 07-23-2018, 07:32 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by jdm2662 View Post
The way Abreu has been hitting the last two months, the Sox won't get an offer worth trading. Trading Abreu just to trade him makes zero sense. Unless you don't get a quality offer, I wouldn't bother.
I think he's staying put at this point. In fact, given the names still out there and the teams searching for help, I think it's unlikely the Sox move anyone other than Soria, unless some other bullpen arm actually has value, too.

Of course, a subsection of people here will consider this a failure and will just blast away in the same manner they would if Abreu, Avi, etc. were traded for players they considered substandard.
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  #51  
Old 07-23-2018, 08:18 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I think he's staying put at this point. In fact, given the names still out there and the teams searching for help, I think it's unlikely the Sox move anyone other than Soria, unless some other bullpen arm actually has value, too.

Of course, a subsection of people here will consider this a failure and will just blast away in the same manner they would if Abreu, Avi, etc. were traded for players they considered substandard.
I could see teams being interested in Avi and Palka and possibly Covey or Shields. I could see some combination of those with Soria drawing at least one serious prospect though probably not anything in the top 50.
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  #52  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:57 PM
jdm2662 jdm2662 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I think he's staying put at this point. In fact, given the names still out there and the teams searching for help, I think it's unlikely the Sox move anyone other than Soria, unless some other bullpen arm actually has value, too.

Of course, a subsection of people here will consider this a failure and will just blast away in the same manner they would if Abreu, Avi, etc. were traded for players they considered substandard.

The likes of Soria and Shields, yes, those guys you trade for anything. If you can get anything for crappy vets past their prime, go for it.



I wouldn't trade Avi and Abreu just to trade them. It doesn't make any sense to me. Let them finish the season. If an offer that makes sense comes in the off season, then do it.
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