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View Poll Results: Is August 2018 the turning point towards winning?
Yes. Next year we will challenge for the division. 14 20.00%
No, but we're on schedule. 43 61.43%
No, and we're behind schedule. 3 4.29%
Churros 10 14.29%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16  
Old 08-27-2018, 03:11 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
No. The rebuild is behind schedule. The winning streak is actually a bad thing.

The recent wins, for the most part, are the result of random noise coming from players who are not a part of the rebuild. It's great that Palka has had some big hits, but Palka is not part of the rebuild. Nobody seriously considers him a future MLB player of any note. When Palka wins us a game with his bat in 2018, what he is actually doing is stealing wins from the 2020 team because now we will draft in a lower position.

Looking at players who are actually part of the rebuild paints a sobering picture:

Giolito - not living up to potential. behind schedule developmentally
Lopez - not living up to potential. behind schedule developmentally
Moncada - #bustwatch, this season calls into question whether he even has a future in MLB beyond 2019
Kopech - ahead of schedule
Anderson - has not developed as much as you hoped he would this year
Yolmer - on schedule to maybe be a Juan Uribe like figure on a contending team
Davidson - showed potential to be a Jose Valentin like figure, but now seems to have no MLB future

The 2018 season shows that there is still good reason to distrust this organization's ability to scout and develop talent, and the current winning streak, especially because it is against the Tigers who have a just barely better record than us, ADDS INSULT TO THAT INJURY by threatening to stick the 2019+ iterations of this team with slightly worse talent.
Can you link me to the rebuild schedule so I can see just how off track the team and individual players are when compared to the schedule? Thanks!
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  #17  
Old 08-27-2018, 03:21 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kobo View Post
Can you link me to the rebuild schedule so I can see just how off track the team and individual players are when compared to the schedule? Thanks!
I don't agree with him, but the question I posed relates to what we all assume is the schedule (because these things are not outlined for our perusal).
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  #18  
Old 08-27-2018, 03:23 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
If I'm not mistaken, last year the Sox played around .500 ball from maybe the 2nd week of August through the end of the season. I don't think anyone would call that the turning point in the rebuild.


I believe we're on schedule and that this team is making progress. But, the progress will not be linear. I expect at least another half season of ups and downs and frustration. Maybe next August we'll be able to see that we've reached a turning point.
It's not so much a winning streak as it is a calendar month in which key rotation contributors were the defining factor. I'm hopeful that this is who our rotation is going forward, which would mean lots more winning is on the way.
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  #19  
Old 08-27-2018, 03:24 PM
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There are a few series coming up which will give some kind of indication if the starting pitching can be a part of the future. Regarding position players, what they have shown so far this year is not what I want for the future.
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  #20  
Old 08-27-2018, 03:53 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I don't agree with him, but the question I posed relates to what we all assume is the schedule (because these things are not outlined for our perusal).
Which is why I voted for Churros. I have no idea what the schedule is or the timetable because not a single FO member of the White Sox have publicly said what is the schedule/timetable. The best answer I can provide to the question is maybe.
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  #21  
Old 08-27-2018, 04:18 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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December 6, 2016 was the turning point of the rebuild.
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  #22  
Old 08-27-2018, 04:25 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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The turning point of this rebuild will be when they get a legitimate manager.
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  #23  
Old 08-27-2018, 04:41 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
The turning point of this rebuild will be when they get a legitimate manager.
When we are ready to compete my guess is that Renteria will still be with us, he will be given a chance to see what he can do with a good team. It's almost like that old saying, when I die I'm going to heaven because I spent my time in hell with the White Sox rebuild years. Because of that he will be retained, maybe for only a year.
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  #24  
Old 08-27-2018, 04:57 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I think the real turning point will be April, 2019.

I expect at that point that Eloy will be on the team, we'll have a bullpen full of promising (but inexperienced) arms- to go with the currently promising young rotation and the building blocks like Anderson and Moncada.

At that point- more than half the 25 man roster will be players that have a legit shot at being on the team "when we're good again", and hopefully guys like Cease, Zavala, etc. will join them later in 2019.
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Players that are an important part of the rebuild:
Anderson, Giolito, Lopez, Moncada
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  #25  
Old 08-28-2018, 12:16 AM
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I hang my hope on the arms. We still have a couple of studs in the minors who could come in next year and round out the staff. In the meantime you can stick with Shields as a solid #5 keeping the seat warm until that role is filled.

Then add in Eloy (plus a couple of other minor leaguers) and I think contending for the wild card (if not the division) is realistic. Whatever the case, 2020 IS shaping up nicely.
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  #26  
Old 08-28-2018, 05:08 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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The rebuild is successful when this organization consistently drafts and develops talent.


The rebuild is successful when this organization has a front office that knows when and which free agents to go after.
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  #27  
Old 08-28-2018, 09:41 AM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
The rebuild is successful when this organization consistently drafts and develops talent.


The rebuild is successful when this organization has a front office that knows when and which free agents to go after.
I would agree with this. I am very happy with some of the contributions we are getting from our youngsters. They are showing talent reminiscent of impact players. However, we will not have a roster with only home grown guys. We are going to need to get a couple FAs at least to help fill key spots. We have to make the right choices at the right time and be willing to pay the salaries necessary to get these guys.
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  #28  
Old 08-28-2018, 09:56 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soxfanreggie View Post
I would agree with this. I am very happy with some of the contributions we are getting from our youngsters. They are showing talent reminiscent of impact players. However, we will not have a roster with only home grown guys. We are going to need to get a couple FAs at least to help fill key spots. We have to make the right choices at the right time and be willing to pay the salaries necessary to get these guys.

I agree with your post. I bolded the part on which I want to expand a bit more.


Part of making the right choice at the right time is knowing where your "holes" are. I don't think we know that yet. That's why I'm not in favor of splurging in this year's free agent class. I would prefer to wait until after the 2019 season; we will have a better idea of where our holes are - or are likely to be - at that point.
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  #29  
Old 08-28-2018, 11:02 AM
fusillirob1983 fusillirob1983 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
No. The rebuild is behind schedule. The winning streak is actually a bad thing.

The recent wins, for the most part, are the result of random noise coming from players who are not a part of the rebuild. It's great that Palka has had some big hits, but Palka is not part of the rebuild. Nobody seriously considers him a future MLB player of any note. When Palka wins us a game with his bat in 2018, what he is actually doing is stealing wins from the 2020 team because now we will draft in a lower position.

Looking at players who are actually part of the rebuild paints a sobering picture:

Giolito - not living up to potential. behind schedule developmentally
Lopez - not living up to potential. behind schedule developmentally
Moncada - #bustwatch, this season calls into question whether he even has a future in MLB beyond 2019
Kopech - ahead of schedule
Anderson - has not developed as much as you hoped he would this year
Yolmer - on schedule to maybe be a Juan Uribe like figure on a contending team
Davidson - showed potential to be a Jose Valentin like figure, but now seems to have no MLB future

The 2018 season shows that there is still good reason to distrust this organization's ability to scout and develop talent, and the current winning streak, especially because it is against the Tigers who have a just barely better record than us, ADDS INSULT TO THAT INJURY by threatening to stick the 2019+ iterations of this team with slightly worse talent.
I agree with a lot of the player analysis except Moncada.

I disagree about winning now hurts the ability to win in 2020. Whoever we draft next year, regardless of draft position, will likely have little impact on the major league team in 2020 as it seems they're no longer trying to fast track players like Beckham/Sale/Rodon.
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  #30  
Old 08-28-2018, 01:10 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusillirob1983 View Post
I agree with a lot of the player analysis except Moncada.

I disagree about winning now hurts the ability to win in 2020. Whoever we draft next year, regardless of draft position, will likely have little impact on the major league team in 2020 as it seems they're no longer trying to fast track players like Beckham/Sale/Rodon.
That's funny, I think I disagree with what was written in every one of the player analyses, but I agree with the general point that winning hurts the Sox draft position which might could potentially hurt the talent on the team in a couple years.

That said, it's pretty hypocritical to at one point criticize players for not showing enough development, and then when they show improvement over (as evidenced by a winning record since the ASB), say that this improvement is hurting the team in 2020 by hurting their draft slot. Player development is going to lead to more wins (that's the whole idea, right?). What do you expect, Renteria to put his worst reliever out there any time the Sox have the lead, hoping he'll blow the game? I'd like the Sox to get the best draft pick possible too, but if they are winning more games due to contributions from future members of the "core", which is what's happening lately, then I'm okay with them picking 6th instead of 3rd.

Regarding the players HomeFish highlighted:

Giolito/Lopez/Kopech: I have no idea what this developmental schedule is that you're referring to. Were Lopez and Giolito ahead of schedule with their 2017 performance, but now they're behind schedule? Not sure how that works. All three have shown potential to be part of a competitive rotation, the hope is that maybe two of them can stick when that time comes.

Moncada: this is the first time I've heard anybody questioning whether he has an MLB future past 2019. He's had a tough rookie season, but anybody who's watched him can see the potential.

Anderson: He's the most valuable position player on this team, and has shown a ton of improvement this season, especially defensively.

Davidson: I don't get the Valentin comp at all. I agree that he doesn't look likely to be a big part of the future.

Yolmer: this one might be accurate, though I don't expect him to ever be as valuable as Uribe
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