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  #46  
Old 11-15-2019, 04:27 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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You guys know the Sox have been in an intentional rebuild since late 2016, right? They were tanking. This is why the payroll has been so low.

I believe the Sox behavior from 2005 - 2012 shows that they will be willing to spend once the rebuild is over. And it's over either this year or next, depending on how you define it.
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  #47  
Old 11-15-2019, 04:35 PM
WSox597 WSox597 is offline
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I'm glad they're keeping Jose. He's a good influence on the younger players, leading by example.

And he's an RBI machine usually, very dependable.

He's maybe average at 1B or a little below, agreed. At least he's not completely terrible out there.

Frank Thomas wasn't a defensive gem there either, but his hitting more than made up for it. He got better as time went on, and so has Jose.

I'm okay with this deal, not that it's my money or anything.
  #48  
Old 11-15-2019, 06:12 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
You guys know the Sox have been in an intentional rebuild since late 2016, right? They were tanking. This is why the payroll has been so low.

I believe the Sox behavior from 2005 - 2012 shows that they will be willing to spend once the rebuild is over. And it's over either this year or next, depending on how you define it.
Agreed, but will they spend in order to pull themselves out of the rebuild, or only after the team shows signs of being competitive? To me that question will define this offseason.
  #49  
Old 11-15-2019, 06:57 PM
ZombieRob ZombieRob is offline
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Good deal for the Sox. Vaughn will be coming soon. He's a dymanic hitting talent. I would of been happy with a 2 year deal with a team option.
  #50  
Old 11-15-2019, 07:00 PM
ZombieRob ZombieRob is offline
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Wanted to add IMO I don't think any new addition nessacerally has to be a FA that it could also come via trade. Sox still have a top 5 rated farm system with a soon to be packed roster.
  #51  
Old 11-15-2019, 07:02 PM
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Wanted to add IMO I don't think any new addition nessacerally has to be a FA that it could also come via trade. Sox still have a top 5 rated farm system with a soon to be packed roster.
And in theory guys like Sheets, Collins and Vaughn all will be on the major league squad soon and capable of playing 1B/DH.

Doesn't mean there isn't room for a team leader who is still very productive and reasonably priced on a short term deal.
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  #52  
Old 11-16-2019, 12:37 PM
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Right, sorry I am not jumping for joy. I really do like Jose, I just think first base is a more relatively easy position to fill than say, CF or SS, and for a team that hasn't spent 100 mil in a while, tying up 20% of the payroll into an easier position to fill was not a great move to me.
20% of the payroll as it is today, sure. But the offseason is just getting started and that 20% could very well become 10% if ownership finally opens up the checkbook for real.

You could have also certainly gotten a better 1B than Abreu, but who would you get and how much would he cost? Howie Kendrick was the only free agent option who had a better season than Abreu last year and he's 3 years older. Grandal could play first but he's part time at the position and I'm doubting the team doing what it'll take to sign him.

I was initially meh on this as well but I've come around. He's the best option for right now. His teammates love him, the organization loves him, the fans love him. He's give the team steady production at the position.
  #53  
Old 11-16-2019, 12:41 PM
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20% of the payroll as it is today, sure. But the offseason is just getting started and that 20% could very well become 10% if ownership finally opens up the checkbook for real.

You could have also certainly gotten a better 1B than Abreu, but who would you get and how much would he cost? Howie Kendrick was the only free agent option who had a better season than Abreu last year and he's 3 years older. Grandal could play first but he's part time at the position and I'm doubting the team doing what it'll take to sign him.

I was initially meh on this as well but I've come around. He's the best option for right now. His teammates love him, the organization loves him, the fans love him. He's give the team steady production at the position.
Exactly and for now it's a one year deal. Even if it grows to a 3-year deal it won't be crippling to their budget.
  #54  
Old 11-19-2019, 02:18 PM
Kilroy Kilroy is offline
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...Also, stereotypes of this nature exist for a reason and like it or not, the Sox haven’t spent big on a FA in two decades so it’s not like those comments are without merit.
I don't know how you say things like this. I get that you want them to do some things this off-season, but if you can't remember the initial Abreu signing or the Adam Dunn signing (even tho he sucked ass), I'm wondering if there's any help for you.

We know how the Dunn signing turned out, but he was one of the top free agents available going into 2011, and the Sox put down big money for him.

As for Abreu in 2013, the Sox landed him over the Astros, Giants, and Red Sox, and ponied up, what was at the time, the largest contract ever for an international player.

I don't disagree that the Sox need to get out on limb more and spend some cash. And this off-season, IMO, is the year to do it. But don't just make **** up.
  #55  
Old 11-19-2019, 06:05 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is online now
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I don't know how you say things like this. I get that you want them to do some things this off-season, but if you can't remember the initial Abreu signing or the Adam Dunn signing (even tho he sucked ass), I'm wondering if there's any help for you.

We know how the Dunn signing turned out, but he was one of the top free agents available going into 2011, and the Sox put down big money for him.

As for Abreu in 2013, the Sox landed him over the Astros, Giants, and Red Sox, and ponied up, what was at the time, the largest contract ever for an international player.

I don't disagree that the Sox need to get out on limb more and spend some cash. And this off-season, IMO, is the year to do it. But don't just make **** up.
Seriously, your example of the Sox actually spending money is the $56M we spent a decade ago on a 32 year old DH and an international FA who averaged less than the top 20 deals given out that year?

Guess I’m hopeless.

Make **** up? Our biggest contract ever was just handed out to a guy who hadn’t seen an MLB pitch. Our highest AAV was just given out as a one-year QO.

We haven't spent FA money on anyone worth a damn in two decades. It’s not imaginary, it’s a real criticism. I hope it changes and we somehow start acting like the big market team we are, but teams have been spending twice the money we do for a while. Hopefully we go back to where we were a decade ago in the ~10 range for payroll now that we need to.

This shouldn’t even be an argument or proving point. JR has been cheap with FAs, it’s a historical fact with its own proof.
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  #56  
Old 11-20-2019, 09:37 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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Seriously, your example of the Sox actually spending money is the $56M we spent a decade ago on a 32 year old DH and an international FA who averaged less than the top 20 deals given out that year?

Guess Iím hopeless.

Make **** up? Our biggest contract ever was just handed out to a guy who hadnít seen an MLB pitch. Our highest AAV was just given out as a one-year QO.

We haven't spent FA money on anyone worth a damn in two decades. Itís not imaginary, itís a real criticism. I hope it changes and we somehow start acting like the big market team we are, but teams have been spending twice the money we do for a while. Hopefully we go back to where we were a decade ago in the ~10 range for payroll now that we need to.

This shouldnít even be an argument or proving point. JR has been cheap with FAs, itís a historical fact with its own proof.
They spent the money to sign Luis Robert as a minor leaguer. That ended up costing them around $56 million.
  #57  
Old 11-20-2019, 11:44 AM
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They spent the money to sign Luis Robert as a minor leaguer. That ended up costing them around $56 million.
Which is what? Like paying him $9m AAV?
  #58  
Old 11-20-2019, 11:49 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Which is what? Like paying him $9m AAV?
On top of that, Robert only got $26 million of that. The rest was tax for going over the international signing limit.

Your point is well taken, though. It really was chump change for a player of that caliber.
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  #59  
Old 11-20-2019, 01:32 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is online now
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On top of that, Robert only got $26 million of that. The rest was tax for going over the international signing limit.

Your point is well taken, though. It really was chump change for a player of that caliber.
And we can keep bringing up how JR has signed some ~$60M deals, but it's going to take nine figures to secure a worthwhile target.

Except for a guy like Dickerson, of course, which also helps.

Last edited by KRS1; 11-20-2019 at 01:41 PM.
  #60  
Old 11-22-2019, 11:37 AM
hoosiersoxfan hoosiersoxfan is online now
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Sox and Abreu have now agreed on a 3 year/$50 million deal
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