Mark Buehrle HOF Discussion

[shes]

He'll have to rack up another 118 wins to get in. Somehow I don't see it happening.

[chicagowhitesox1]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx

1) Meaningless. Did you suspect Pablo Ozuna of using steroids? Did you suspect Fernando Vina? Andy Petite doesn't exactly scream user but he was too.

2) Also meaningless. They don't award hall votes for being a team with almost a century of futility.

3) Those definitely will. Very few have done that.

4) Probably doesn't mean a lot as it isn't really a "stat" that so many voters look for.

5) Was Mark really a big saber guy? He led the league in hits given up a few times. I'm not a saber guy myself but wouldn't that work against him?

I'm not a big saber guy either but his career era+ is actually pretty good compared to alot of Hall of Famers. I would have to look this up but how many pitchers since 1980 have had 12 consecutive 200 plus innings? He's got a good chance of making it 13 if he does it this year. I know he's not a Hall of Famer as we speak but if he puts up 3 more seasons of 200 plus innings and averages about 3.0 war then he has to be considered as a decent candidate. A strong peak would have helped him alot but theres not to many pitchers who have been as consistent as him with no baggage over the past 30 years.

It's a longshot that he will even pitch 200 innings for 3 more seasons but it's possible with the way he throws and 16 consecutive seasons of 200 innings especially in this era will not be overlooked.

I think the 2005 championship will play a part in some voters minds. Plus theres not too many WS teams that have no Hall of Fame or future Hall of Famers and as forgotten as the 2005 Whitesox are to alot of people in the country they are still a team thats going to be remembered for bringing Chicago it's first WS since 1917. ........Frank Thomas wasn't really a part of that team due to postseason. I know he played a part in the regular season though.

The Florida Marlins might be the only team that I can think of that won't have any Hall of Famers. The 2005 Whitesox could be another one but I find it hard to believe that nobody on that team will make it. Mark Buehrle is probably the best player to have any chance of making it.

[chicagowhitesox1]

Originally Posted by Milw

You're really grasping for straws. When a player isn't even a consensus HOFer among his own fanbase, he has no real chance.

Buehrle will go down as one of the great players in Sox history, and I imagine he will linger on the HOF ballot for several years, but no way in hell he gets in.

Yeah I know he's a longshot and i'm using career war as a perspective and maybe thats a bad way of looking at him but looking at how war rates other hall of fame pitchers, war seems to get their careers right so why would Buehrle, if he ends up with a mid 60 war be a bad choice? He pitched in a tough AL Central, in a hitters ball park during a high powered offense era so of course his stats aren't going to look spectacular.

[chicagowhitesox1]

Originally Posted by shes

He'll have to rack up another 118 wins to get in. Somehow I don't see it happening.

I would say he needs 250 to be a automatic.

[SoxFanCPA]

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

I would say he needs 250 to be a automatic.

He isn't getting in the HOF. Please stop.

[SBSoxFan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx

The way I look at it, was there any time in Mark's career when you ever thought he was a top 5 or even top 10 pitcher in the league? Very good, very consistent pitcher for a long long time, but only Sox hall of fame worthy.

Maybe 2001, 2002, and 2005.

Originally Posted by eastchicagosoxfan

A HOF player should have a career and the stats that jump out at you. Buehrle's had neither. Buehrle can't even point to a monster season. Unfortunately, the various Veteran's Committees really brought in a lot of guys that watered down the HOF. Mark needs to have his career peak after the age of 35 to receive serious consideration. If he wants to take the Bert Blyleven route, he needs to win 100 more games. He's won 13 each of the last four seasons. He might win 13 this year.

He might win 13, but he'd need to go on a good run. He's currently 8-7.

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

I'm not a big saber guy either but his career era+ is actually pretty good compared to alot of Hall of Famers. I would have to look this up but how many pitchers since 1980 have had 12 consecutive 200 plus innings? He's got a good chance of making it 13 if he does it this year. I know he's not a Hall of Famer as we speak but if he puts up 3 more seasons of 200 plus innings and averages about 3.0 war then he has to be considered as a decent candidate. A strong peak would have helped him alot but theres not to many pitchers who have been as consistent as him with no baggage over the past 30 years.

It's a longshot that he will even pitch 200 innings for 3 more seasons but it's possible with the way he throws and 16 consecutive seasons of 200 innings especially in this era will not be overlooked.

I think the 2005 championship will play a part in some voters minds. Plus theres not too many WS teams that have no Hall of Fame or future Hall of Famers and as forgotten as the 2005 Whitesox are to alot of people in the country they are still a team thats going to be remembered for bringing Chicago it's first WS since 1917. ........Frank Thomas wasn't really a part of that team due to postseason. I know he played a part in the regular season though.

The Florida Marlins might be the only team that I can think of that won't have any Hall of Famers. The 2005 Whitesox could be another one but I find it hard to believe that nobody on that team will make it. Mark Buehrle is probably the best player to have any chance of making it.

I'd say he has a great chance of making it 13 in a row if he pitches 200 innings this year.

With the Sox demise this year, probably the one baseball item I'm most interested in is seeing whether Buehrle once again wins 10+ games and pitches over 200 innings. He should easily get to 10 wins, needing only 2 more wins, but he will need to pitch about 50 more innings in ~8 starts.

[LITTLE NELL]

Mark might get in if he gets to 200 wins +, the perfect game and the other no hitter will help. With pitchers starting less games every year, 200 wins might be the new 300. In fact I don't know if we will ever see another 300 game winner in MLB. With pitchers starting every 5 games it's tough to get to 300 wins. Another reason is pitchers are pulled after 100 pitches, so say in a tie game where they might have a chance to win, most of the time they are taken out of the game because of pitch count.

If any White sox pitcher belongs in the HOF, its Billy Pierce.
All this WAR stuff and other stats except for W-L and ERA have to take a back seat to how a player performed in his era. Pierce was one of the top pitchers in the 50s, he started 2 All-Star games and made 7 All Star teams. He won 20 games twice. in my mind only Warren Spahn and Robin Roberts were better in that era. I don't think Whitey Ford was better, put Pierce on the Yankees and Ford on the White Sox and Billy is in the HOF as we speak.

[Noneck]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

Mark might get in if he gets to 200 wins +, the perfect game and the other no hitter will help. With pitchers starting less games every year, 200 wins might be the new 300. In fact I don't know if we will ever see another 300 game winner in MLB. With pitchers starting every 5 games it's tough to get to 300 wins. Another reason is pitchers are pulled after 100 pitches, so say in a tie game where they might have a chance to win, most of the time they are taken out of the game because of pitch count.

If any White sox pitcher belongs in the HOF, its Billy Pierce.
All this WAR stuff and other stats except for W-L and ERA have to take a back seat to how a player performed in his era. Pierce was one of the top pitchers in the 50s, he started 2 All-Star games and made 7 All Star teams. He won 20 games twice. in my mind only Warren Spahn and Robin Roberts were better in that era. I don't think Whitey Ford was better, put Pierce on the Yankees and Ford on the White Sox and Billy is in the HOF as we speak.

Im with you all the way on this. I guess Buehrle has a chance if he pitches many more years, gets a lot more wins, sniffs a couple cy youngs and makes more all star teams. Pierce deserves it now, yesterday and did 40 years ago. Billy is such a nice guy, it would be so great if he could get in while he is still with us so he could enjoy it.

[BainesHOF]

The only chance Buehrle has to get into the Hall of Fame is if he buys a ticket.

To say the only reason Early Wynn got into the HOF because he won 300 games is like saying the only reason Neil Armstrong was an astronaut is because he walked on the moon.

[Golden Sox]

It has amazed me as to who has been elected to the MLB HOF in my lifetime. I NEVER thought Walter O'Malley, Bill Veeck and Ron Santo would be inducted into the HOF. It's almost as if these baseball historians have reinvented history. I can see how Veeck got inducted, he was liked by the media. That wasn't the case with O'Malley and Santo. Billy Pierce was a better pitcher than Mark Buehrle and he's not in the HOF. Unless Buehrle has a tremendous finish to his career, I can't see him being inducted.

[socko82]

I love Buehrle as much as every other Sox fan on this board but there's no way he's a HOF'er. He's a compiler, give him credit, he's stayed healthy, been a good teammate and been constinent but that doesn't get you in the HOF. In my opinion, David Cone had a better career than Mark including a Cy Young award and a perfect game and even with the east coast media behind him he was dropped from the ballot after one year. Another thing to consider is with the steroid guys backing up, ballots are going to be split and the guys who vote for the steroid guys are not going to have room on their ballots for the fringe candidates.

Also, I don't think Mussina gets in "easily". Maybe eventually it's gonna take a while.

[Hitmen77]

Originally Posted by SoxFanCPA

He isn't getting in the HOF. Please stop.

Agreed.

I think Mark should absolutely be a part of the White Sox Hall of Fame (if such a thing exists).

Anyone who thinks he's got a shot at the MLB HOF is smoking something.

[tstrike2000]

Mark's a great guy and pitcher but not HOF worthy. He's one ex-player that could possibly make a good addition to our coaching staff.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by Hitmen77

Agreed.

I think Mark should absolutely be a part of the White Sox Hall of Fame (if such a thing exists).

Anyone who thinks he's got a shot at the MLB HOF is smoking something.

I agree. He and Konerko are similar in that regard.

[Foulke You]

I love the guy but unless Mark puts together a bunch of all star seasons in his twilight years, he is not getting in. Buehrle's post career honor will likely be having his #56 retired by the White Sox. If he retired today, he has had a fine career but I don't see him going to the Hall.