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  #181  
Old 12-04-2019, 05:34 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is online now
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
Iím not just making **** up, every dbacks fan has witnesses what I have in person and on TV.

Itís not down a bit, weíre talking about him losing nearly 5 MPH off his max. Like I said, Iíve witnessed it happen in real time as have all the Dbacks fans down here. That fan base would love to get something of value for him after watching him lose ďa tickĒ every season the last few years while getting hit really hard.
Easy man, I was literally agreeing with you.
  #182  
Old 12-04-2019, 06:24 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
White Sox outbid the Phillies for Wheeler: https://twitter.com/ken_rosenthal/st...060408320?s=21

So this one isn't on the FO.

It feels a little better knowing that, but it hopefully serves as a learning situation for the front office. We won 72 games last year, and have been losing for a half decade. We can't just outbid teams for top free agents. We have to blow their offers away.


I doubt Cole and Strasburg are on the table...but still holding out hope.


The worst thing we could do is throw $100 million at a has been like MadBum, but I've got a bad feeling in my gut that that's exactly what we're going to do.
  #183  
Old 12-04-2019, 06:27 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
This doesn't have anything to do with how the rest of the league views the White Sox. Wheeler's fiance apparently wanted to live near where she grew up in NJ. Not much you can do about that.

And no, this does not mean that the Sox are a cheap organization not willing to pay the price for premier free agents. There is a limit that they're willing to spend for any player - that doesn't make them cheap, especially if that limit is more than any other team is willing to spend (which is reportedly the case here). If Wheeler told the Sox that he's only willing to sign with them for $200M, and the Sox don't pay that, it doesn't mean the Sox are "not willing to do what it takes to win".

Um...actually that's exactly what that would say. You put Wheeler at the top of this rotation and I'm printing my playoff tickets. Add MadBum and I'm making vacation plans in October. I don't think, of course, Wheeler said that to the Sox. But the Sox could have removed Philly from the equation with money if they really wanted to. And short of signing one of the two guys ahead of him...the probably needed to.


As I said above, I really hope they don't spend money to save face. Save it for next offseason instead of giving a similar commitment to a lesser pitcher.
  #184  
Old 12-04-2019, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Um...actually that's exactly what that would say. You put Wheeler at the top of this rotation and I'm printing my playoff tickets. Add MadBum and I'm making vacation plans in October. I don't think, of course, Wheeler said that to the Sox. But the Sox could have removed Philly from the equation with money if they really wanted to. And short of signing one of the two guys ahead of him...the probably needed to.


As I said above, I really hope they don't spend money to save face. Save it for next offseason instead of giving a similar commitment to a lesser pitcher.
Where is the line in this case? Or is there a line?
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  #185  
Old 12-04-2019, 06:39 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Originally Posted by JermaineDye05 View Post
I'm fairly confident $12,000,000 would do something about that.
.
I think it's hard for us 'normal' people to have any idea how people with their level of salary think. I bet there's not a person here who wouldn't move halfway across the country for $2 million, but clearly when you make $118 million an extra 1.5% doesn't matter so much. Would an extra 10%? I guess we'll never know .
  #186  
Old 12-04-2019, 06:42 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Where is the line in this case? Or is there a line?
It's not smart to say you should massively over pay for somebody just to get him, especially when it's not like he's THE top playe. Smart teams spend money, smart teams DON'T overpay a player by 10s of millions more than any other team and hamstring themselves later.
  #187  
Old 12-04-2019, 06:47 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Where is the line in this case? Or is there a line?

Answered this in the other thread...but the line should be where reasonably the money would make more sense to make the pitch to Strasburg or Cole.

We aren't going to win with a lesser pitcher. And a large commitment to a regressing back end guy like MadBum will only hurt our chances to get a big fish in the future.


This really stinks. But unless we're bidding on the top two guys, I'd like to see the White Sox hold off on anything but one year committments for pitchers and try again next offseason.
  #188  
Old 12-04-2019, 06:54 PM
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Jeff Passan reporting our offer only included $120 million in guarantees. So...highest offer technically. But nobody getting a six figure commitment is choosing us over the Phillies over $2 million.


I guess...at least we're making offers in the ballpark this year.
  #189  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Jeff Passan reporting our offer only included $120 million in guarantees. So...highest offer technically. But nobody getting a six figure commitment is choosing us over the Phillies over $2 million.


I guess...at least we're making offers in the ballpark this year.
He probably would have if his fiance's family wasn't from NJ, especially if there was non-guaranteed money available that might have taken it even higher which your post seems to imply. Not much you can do about losing out to family.

Edit: And we honestly don't know how motivated Wheeler is by just cash. Even if we offered $130M it might not have been enough. $118M is a metric ****ton of money. Maybe that was simply enough and the Sox would have had to go to $150M or more to move the needle in their direction. We don't even know what the discussion entailed once the Sox were informed he was going to Philly.
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  #190  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:01 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Jeff Passan reporting our offer only included $120 million in guarantees. So...highest offer technically. But nobody getting a six figure commitment is choosing us over the Phillies over $2 million.


I guess...at least we're making offers in the ballpark this year.
Anybody choosing between $118 million and $120 million can very easily, if they choose, let things other than money be the deciding factor. For example, seems like Wheeler choose based on family reasons. It's very possible a player could choose us over the Phillies, especially if they weren't basing it entirely on baseball reasons.

Last edited by anewman35; 12-04-2019 at 08:13 PM.
  #191  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:09 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by anewman35 View Post
Anybody choosing between $118 million and $120 million can very easily, if they choose, let things other than money be the deciding factor if they choose. For example, seems like Wheeler choose based on family reasons. It's very possible a player could choose us over the Phillies, especially if they weren't basing it entirely on baseball reasons.
Exactly. Contrary to what some believe, I donít think the average player around the league consider the Sox to be any less attractive than the Phillies, all else being equal.
  #192  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
He probably would have if his fiance's family wasn't from NJ, especially if there was non-guaranteed money available that might have taken it even higher which your post seems to imply. Not much you can do about losing out to family.

Edit: And we honestly don't know how motivated Wheeler is by just cash. Even if we offered $130M it might not have been enough. $118M is a metric ****ton of money. Maybe that was simply enough and the Sox would have had to go to $150M or more to move the needle in their direction. We don't even know what the discussion entailed once the Sox were informed he was going to Philly.

Forgetting the fiance story...if you told me the Phillies offered $120 million, I'd have told you we needed to offer $140 million for him to pass that opportunity up.
  #193  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:19 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by anewman35 View Post
I bet there's not a person here who wouldn't move halfway across the country for $2 million
$2 million!

Wait, I have to live in Philly?
  #194  
Old 12-04-2019, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
$2 million!

Wait, I have to live in Philly?
NONONONONO...

It is $2M LESS and you have to live in Philly...
  #195  
Old 12-04-2019, 08:18 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Forgetting the fiance story...if you told me the Phillies offered $120 million, I'd have told you we needed to offer $140 million for him to pass that opportunity up.
That seems crazy. If there weren't family reasons or any personal connection, you really think a player would need $20 million more to sign in with us? If you're saying that's for baseball reasons, it's not like they're some playoff guarantee, and we are in the bigger market (albiwt obviously the second team in said market). What makes you think, money being equal or a little higher, we're THAT bad of an organization from a player perspective?
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