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  #91  
Old 12-03-2019, 09:30 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
Are either Shaw or Moustakas close to average defensively at second base? Apparently the Reds think so (or don't care) when it comes to Moustakas. Second base is a pretty important defensive position. I'd prefer to have someone play the position competently (e.g. Mendick or Yolmer if he's willing to take a pay cut) until Madrigal is promoted -- even if it means sacrificing some offense.
I dug this up from July 2018, discussing Shaw's move from 3B to 2B after the Brewers acquired Moustakas:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-earl...t-second-base/

The summary is that Shaw won't be a gold-glover, but he shouldn't embarrass himself out there. I don't really know how to judge the defensive stats from the last half of 2018 to be able to tell how it worked out, and we know 2019 was injury-plagued so it's probably not fair to judge him on that.

Regardless, one of Yolmer or Mendick will almost certainly be on the team to start the year, so the team will have a capable defender at 2B. The advantage that Shaw brings is that he adds some power at 2B, which the team currently doesn't have. The fact that he's left-handed is another bonus. Basically, he improves the versatility of the roster compared to, say, keeping both Yolmer and Mendick on the bench who bring similar attributes.
  #92  
Old 12-03-2019, 09:41 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Except what will ultimately happen is we're only going to get 5 years and part of a 6th.

Regardless of what happens with Bryant, Rodon, et al...the number one, non-starter issue for MLBPA is service time manipulation. The new contract is going to award a year if the player comes up at any point in a season, and it's going to retro-cover any players who come up now. The player's association has been very clear about this, and if not getting it means no baseball for years, they will sit years and wait to get this rectified.
Edit: Misread this and yes I agree the MLBPA will be pushing hard to change the service time requirements. I don't know if it will end up being "any service time = full year" but I do expect the number of days to reduce dramatically. Might end up being around 60 so teams could safely call up players for a cup of coffee in September twice before losing a year. More so since the new rules require a team to expand to 28 in August. The MLBPA will see that as an opportunity to get young players experience so teams don't call up aging veterans just to fill the holes.
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Last edited by voodoochile; 12-03-2019 at 10:00 AM.
  #93  
Old 12-03-2019, 10:21 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/...e-figures.html


The bidding for Wheeler is already passing predictions. Hopefully our bids are competitive.
  #94  
Old 12-03-2019, 10:22 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Edit: Misread this and yes I agree the MLBPA will be pushing hard to change the service time requirements. I don't know if it will end up being "any service time = full year" but I do expect the number of days to reduce dramatically. Might end up being around 60 so teams could safely call up players for a cup of coffee in September twice before losing a year. More so since the new rules require a team to expand to 28 in August. The MLBPA will see that as an opportunity to get young players experience so teams don't call up aging veterans just to fill the holes.

The new August rules make a really good guideline for how to do this right. Hopeful both sides will see sense and figure it out early.
  #95  
Old 12-03-2019, 10:56 AM
BRDSR BRDSR is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/...e-figures.html


The bidding for Wheeler is already passing predictions. Hopefully our bids are competitive.
Iím really hoping we land him, and soon. Seems the most realistic high-quality option, and would take a lot of pressure off the remainder of the offseason.
  #96  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:08 AM
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Heyman thinks a deal might happen sooner rather than later. I wonder if the team's aggressiveness with Grandal will have a snowball effect where players won't be sitting around during the spring of 2020.

https://twitter.com/jonheyman/status...167645699?s=21
  #97  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:39 PM
DaveIsHere DaveIsHere is offline
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Originally Posted by BRDSR View Post
Iím really hoping we land him, and soon. Seems the most realistic high-quality option, and would take a lot of pressure off the remainder of the offseason.
Am I the only one that thinks 100mil+ for Wheeler is money better spent elsewhere. Personally I don't feel he is worth that at all. Really don't trust the injury history, could be Danks v2....
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  #98  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:59 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Am I the only one that thinks 100mil+ for Wheeler is money better spent elsewhere. Personally I don't feel he is worth that at all. Really don't trust the injury history, could be Danks v2....
It's definitely a risk. But it could pay out big because there are many who think he still has untapped potential. His stuff is top-notch.
  #99  
Old 12-03-2019, 01:05 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is online now
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Originally Posted by DaveIsHere View Post
Am I the only one that thinks 100mil+ for Wheeler is money better spent elsewhere. Personally I don't feel he is worth that at all. Really don't trust the injury history, could be Danks v2....
I was pretty against it as of a few weeks ago, and would prefer a safer investment into Bumgarner. However, Wheeler's upside is pretty big, and if the Sox can keep a loaded staff of high upside guys (even with injury concerns) over the next few years similar to the Dodgers have done, might be worth it. Having a fluid rotation of guys like Giolito, Wheeler, Kopech, Cease, Rodon, Lopez, Dunning, Stiever gives you 8 guys that could be pitching like TOR starters at different points during the WS window of the next 5 or so years.
  #100  
Old 12-03-2019, 01:07 PM
RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveIsHere View Post
Am I the only one that thinks 100mil+ for Wheeler is money better spent elsewhere. Personally I don't feel he is worth that at all. Really don't trust the injury history, could be Danks v2....
You might be right but thatís the market now and either you accept it and become competitive or you end up being a also ran!
  #101  
Old 12-03-2019, 01:49 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by RCWHITESOX View Post
You might be right but thatís the market now and either you accept it and become competitive or you end up being a also ran!
I don't think he's questioning whether the Sox should be spending that level of money, he's questioning whether Wheeler is the right guy. The rumors are something around $100M/5 years, so a $20M AAV. I don't think that is crazy for someone of Wheeler's talent level, age, and recent level of performance. The risk is mostly in the risk of injury, and while Wheeler has missed a couple years to TJS, he's been reliable the past two years since he fully recovered.
  #102  
Old 12-03-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
I was pretty against it as of a few weeks ago, and would prefer a safer investment into Bumgarner. However, Wheeler's upside is pretty big, and if the Sox can keep a loaded staff of high upside guys (even with injury concerns) over the next few years similar to the Dodgers have done, might be worth it. Having a fluid rotation of guys like Giolito, Wheeler, Kopech, Cease, Rodon, Lopez, Dunning, Stiever gives you 8 guys that could be pitching like TOR starters at different points during the WS window of the next 5 or so years.
So if we just staff up with a bunch of injury prone players then we will have enough to keep a 5 man rotation going as they each take an injury break here and there.....
  #103  
Old 12-03-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
I don't think he's questioning whether the Sox should be spending that level of money, he's questioning whether Wheeler is the right guy. The rumors are something around $100M/5 years, so a $20M AAV. I don't think that is crazy for someone of Wheeler's talent level, age, and recent level of performance. The risk is mostly in the risk of injury, and while Wheeler has missed a couple years to TJS, he's been reliable the past two years since he fully recovered.
You are correct. If it is 5/20 then that is not too bad.
  #104  
Old 12-03-2019, 02:12 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is online now
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Originally Posted by DaveIsHere View Post
So if we just staff up with a bunch of injury prone players then we will have enough to keep a 5 man rotation going as they each take an injury break here and there.....
Hey I mean that's what the Dodgers have been doing for the last several years with guys like Kershaw, Ryu, Hill, McCarthy, Stripling, Buehler (had TJS), Urias, etc. They've made the playoffs 7 straight years and went to back to back WS in '17-18, so might be the move based on the Sox current situation and pitching available.
  #105  
Old 12-03-2019, 02:21 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveIsHere View Post
Am I the only one that thinks 100mil+ for Wheeler is money better spent elsewhere. Personally I don't feel he is worth that at all. Really don't trust the injury history, could be Danks v2....
I think Danks is an imprecise comparison.

Wheeler has two TJS surgeries and has now been excellent since returning.

Danks had shoulder surgery and was never the same after returning.

Pitchers routinely return effective after elbow surgery/TJS. Pitchers usually donít return after shoulder surgery, or if they do their velocity is significantly diminished.
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