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  #16  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Only thing I would question would be "Anderson's improved defense..." He made his 13th error last night on a fairly easy play. His concentration, like Moncada's, comes and goes. That is an issue I would say.

Maybe it improves when (if) the team improves.

FWIW, Anderson has one more error than Lindor. That's a high number, but not the only defensive metric. In another metric, Anderson is 8th in MLB in range factor among shortstops.
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  #17  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:39 AM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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FWIW, Anderson has one more error than Lindor. That's a high number, but not the only defensive metric. In another metric, Anderson is 8th in MLB in range factor among shortstops.
And has been pointed out, he has crazy range which allows him to get to balls that other SS can't--or won't, without botching the play somehow. I see his defense as a better version of Alexei Ramirez before Omar Vizquel stood alongside him at 3B: tons of range, makes all the spectacular plays, only really looks bad on a few routine ones, and keeps getting better as time goes on. Note, that toward the end of his career with the team, few were really complaining about Ramirez's defense.

Anderson is already better now than Ramirez was at the same age. Every player is different I understand, but his younger age (and his shown ability to make adjustments and improve!) gives me hope that he can get better. One last positive for Anderson: a bunch of his errors were committed during the first 1.5 months of the season, and I seem to remember a particular 2 week stretch where he was horrid. Other than that, he's been average or better at the position.
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  #18  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:46 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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FWIW, Anderson has one more error than Lindor. That's a high number, but not the only defensive metric. In another metric, Anderson is 8th in MLB in range factor among shortstops.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I've read many comments even among stat based people that all defensive statistics are somewhat suspect and are still evolving.

In this case I tend to rely more on what I can see and in that respect Anderson is making still far to many mistakes, some of those on fairly regular plays. That tells me concentration is still a big issue with him and needs to get a lot better.
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  #19  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I've read many comments even among stat based people that all defensive statistics are somewhat suspect and are still evolving.

In this case I tend to rely more on what I can see and in that respect Anderson is making still far to many mistakes, some of those on fairly regular plays. That tells me concentration is still a big issue with him and needs to get a lot better.
This is true in the sense that the stats that try encompass all defensive elements into a single number are more a work in progress than offensive or pitching numbers.

I understand relying on what you see, and you've seen a few boneheaded errors, but by the same token you then have to admit that what you see might be subjectively skewed by the fact that you're not watching the other 29 shortstops in the league, right? There are stats that aren't up for debate measuring how a play that looks routine for one shortstop isn't necessarily routine for 20 other shortstops around baseball, which is a skill just as valuable as not making the occasional error on a routine play. That's what we're seeing with Anderson, and why we're saying it's faulty logic to use those few highly visible errors to make a judgment on his overall defense.
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  #20  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Only thing I would question would be "Anderson's improved defense..." He made his 13th error last night on a fairly easy play. His concentration, like Moncada's, comes and goes. That is an issue I would say.

Maybe it improves when (if) the team improves.
I've been trying to google splits, but can't find it. I'm pretty sure his errors are down over the last 2 months and most of these were made in the first 6 weeks of the season, but I could be wrong. Perhaps someone else can correct me.
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  #21  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:27 PM
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I've been trying to google splits, but can't find it. I'm pretty sure his errors are down over the last 2 months and most of these were made in the first 6 weeks of the season, but I could be wrong. Perhaps someone else can correct me.
Your gut is not wrong--one finds here that after making 8 errors through April 27th, he's only made 5, including last night, in the 68 games since.
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:41 PM
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Your gut is not wrong--one finds here that after making 8 errors through April 27th, he's only made 5, including last night, in the 68 games since.
I think you miscounted. I'm guessing you sorted by errors and the 5/26 game jumped to the top. He only had 5 that first month and then the really bad game mentioned above but other than that has 5 more and only 3 since June 1st. So 10 were committed the first two months of the season then 2 in June and last night's.

He actually had zero in may until that 3-spot then he posted 2 more the next few games. Heck if we call the 5/26 game an outlier (and hopefully it is) he's got 10 in the other 90 games which is a pace for 17 or so for the season and is not bad at all.
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  #23  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:45 PM
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White Sox- Rodon's comeback from shoulder surgery, Anderson's improved defense, walk rate, stolen bases, Lopez' first full season in the bigs w/decent results, Jace Fry emerging as a bullpen arm.

Charlotte- Adams, Stephens and Hamilton doing well after being promoted from AA.

Birmingham- Flores and Cease doing well after being promoted from A+, Booker doing well, Collins having a nice season with the bat.

Winston Salem- Gavin Sheets having a nice season, Gonzalez and Rivera doing well since being promoted, Rutherford hitting over .300 with increased power, Forbes hitting almost .300 (age 21).

The injuries suck- but other than Burger, nothing that looks to be career threatening- and alot of guys with question marks entering 2018 are doing well.
The thing is is that EVERY team has players in the minors who are progressing, have nice stats, etc.
There is still very little from the dispersal in AAA or the major league team who are for sure keepers, not to mention all star talent.
This thing is moving at a snails pace.
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  #24  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:52 PM
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The thing is is that EVERY team has players in the minors who are progressing, have nice stats, etc.
There is still very little from the dispersal in AAA or the major league team who are for sure keepers, not to mention all star talent.
This thing is moving at a snails pace.
And it's because several of the real elite prospects are out of action. Five of the top nine have missed significant time because of injury. That's development time that can never be recovered.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that Bernardo Flores and Joel Booker are having good seasons. But, at best, these are future role players at the big-league level, and them playing well hardly softens the blow of a lost season for Luis Robert, or Dane Dunning going down with a potentially serious elbow problem.

Geez, Madrigal and Walker just joined the organization, and both already are hurt. We can try to sprinkle sugar on a pile of **** all we want, but this has been a bad season. And, it's OK to say so.
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  #25  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I think you miscounted. I'm guessing you sorted by errors and the 5/26 game jumped to the top. He only had 5 that first month and then the really bad game mentioned above but other than that has 5 more and only 3 since June 1st. So 10 were committed the first two months of the season then 2 in June and last night's.

He actually had zero in may until that 3-spot then he posted 2 more the next few games. Heck if we call the 5/26 game an outlier (and hopefully it is) he's got 10 in the other 90 games which is a pace for 17 or so for the season and is not bad at all.
You're right I misread the May as Mar and thought I remembered a truly awful game from the beginning of the season.

Either way, your point stands--he started out pretty rough, had one really tough game in May, and has overall been very solid for the last half of the season or so.
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  #26  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
The thing is is that EVERY team has players in the minors who are progressing, have nice stats, etc.
There is still very little from the dispersal in AAA or the major league team who are for sure keepers, not to mention all star talent.
This thing is moving at a snails pace.
Yes, it is, as it should. It's almost like people are forgetting just how ****ty the Sox minor league system was 4 years ago. The fact that they are letting these guys develop at their pace, not rushing anyone and having players earn their promotions should be a positive sign. For years we complained about the lack of depth and the lack of talent in the minors. Now that there are signs of life some of you think it's going too slowly.
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  #27  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:36 PM
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Remember when Nestor Molina was our best prospect? Most of the lower level guys are going up at a decent rate. The talent gap at the higher levels is getting smaller.
I am pleased to see Sheets hitting. He's got plenty of frame to add power down the road.
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  #28  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:50 PM
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Even Jace Fry, who has been a bright spot for the most part, has caught the suck bug.
Noticed that myself last night...he's as bad now as the other stiffs in the bullpen.

Maybe he's being overused by Ricky.
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  #29  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:15 PM
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Yes, it is, as it should. It's almost like people are forgetting just how ****ty the Sox minor league system was 4 years ago. The fact that they are letting these guys develop at their pace, not rushing anyone and having players earn their promotions should be a positive sign. For years we complained about the lack of depth and the lack of talent in the minors. Now that there are signs of life some of you think it's going too slowly.
Rick Hahn has had 4 pick top 10 picks (5 top 11). He's also traded Sale, Eaton and Quintana - far more trade currency than the Astros, Cubs, Braves, Phillies, had. What more does he need?
I realize that the other rebuilders had much stronger farm systems before during and after the rebuild. But that's kind of the point. If the Sox scouting, evaluation, drafting and development isn't first-rate, this is not going to happen anyway.
This is build-up time. He has sufficient assets. My fear is that his (or his boss') patience wears thin and he reverts to his bad habits: rents, over-rated veterans, broken down pitchers, lazy/desperate trades and everything else Hahn did from 2014 - June 2016 that put the Sox in this position in the first place.

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  #30  
Old 07-11-2018, 04:42 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Rick Hahn has had 4 pick top 10 picks (5 top 11). He's also traded Sale, Eaton and Quintana - far more trade currency than the Astros, Cubs, Braves, Phillies, had. What more does he need?
I realize that the other rebuilders had much stronger farm systems before during and after the rebuild. But that's kind of the point. If the Sox scouting, evaluation, drafting and development isn't first-rate, this is not going to happen anyway.
....which has nothing to do with kobo's point. I mean for pete's sake, one of the four top ten picks only just signed with the Sox last week! Yet, he already counts as a demerit on the progress of the rebuild? Two of the other 4 (Rodon and Collins) are right where they should be right now. That leaves Fulmer as the one Top 10 pick who is not making any progress and is on the verge of being a bust.

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This is build-up time. He has sufficient assets. My fear is that his (or his boss') patience wears thin and he reverts to his bad habits: rents, over-rated veterans, broken down pitchers, lazy/desperate trades and everything else Hahn did from 2014 - June 2016 that put the Sox in this position in the first place.
That would be a terrible outcome for sure, but there's no use in constantly fretting about this hypothetical outcome now. We can't have it both ways - complain that the rebuild isn't moving fast enough, but then express concern that Sox brass will lose patience and go back to the old ways that got us in this mess in the first place.
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