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  #1  
Old 10-08-2019, 10:36 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is online now
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Default Finding trade value

If the Sox are going to improve via trade, then everyone will be asking for Robert, Kopech, Madrigal, or Vaughn. I assume the Sox would have to be bowled over to deal away a top 100 guy, since they have already penciled each in for many years of production.

They have a few other chips (Stiever, Walker, Sheets, Basabe, etc.) who might be trade bait, but IMO they can't afford to deal away too much of their future depth.

IMO the Sox should be looking to trade a lot of names from the big league roster, instead. For instance:

1. Aaron Bummer. I like him a lot, but selling high on relievers is almost always a good idea.

2. Carlos Rodon. He's seldom healthy and he's going to test free agency, so he is no longer especially useful to the rebuild. He still has enough potential and control to be tradeable.

3. Alex Colome. Unless you think the Sox are winning the Central in 2020, it's time to deal him. Extending him would be unwise.

4. Leury Garcia. Sox should have sold high on him at the trade deadline, but he single-handedly adds a lot of bench depth.

5 (tie). Evan Marshall, Josh Osich, Jace Fry. Again, sell high. I think all three of these guys have peaked.

6. (tie) Adam Engel, Yolmer Sanchez. They give you great defense and just enough with the bat to be playable for stretches, but are best used as reserves/defensive replacements.

7. Carson Fulmer. He's been consistently awful for the Sox, but has pedigree and stuff. There's always some team who thinks they can turn a pitcher like this around. (Of course, they might just wait for the Sox to waive him.)

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2019, 10:54 AM
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I think that if the Sox want to get a lot of value back they will have to look at younger players like Flores, Stievers, Walker, Sheets to throw into the package.

Possibly some of the 19 YO kids who have flashed well and of course possibly Gonzalez and Rutherford. They also have a few young reliever arms who have flashed well at A and AA this past year who might draw some interest.

I am not advocating for trading those players, I am merely saying I think they would have to go that way if they want to get back serious value. Trading MLB ready players to get back better MLB ready players rarely happens.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2019, 10:56 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Stiever strikes me as the most obvious trade bait in the system. But I would trade anyone in A-ball and frankly I would also trade Madrigal for an absolutely elite pitcher if there was an opportunity to do so. I know to many of you he is the messianic next coming of Nellie Fox you have been waiting for, but there is a serious risk his stuff doesn't translate to the MLB level.
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:08 AM
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Fulmer is the one guy on the list I disagree with. He has zero trade value. Teams are going to wait until he gets dumped and someone will probably give him a minor league tryout.
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:22 AM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is online now
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From the MLB roster really only Bummer, Colome and Marshall have value at this point. Moving them in a package that doesn't yield a very quality long term piece doesn't make sense to me, not to mention depleting a pen that already has holes.

I really want to hold on to Stiever as he might actually be MLB ready come Aug and the Sox could really use a guy that doesn't have an injury history, and throws hard with plus secondary stuff that doesn't have control issues. He was found money last year, but his stuff backs up his performance for sure.

I think selling high on Collins makes sense now, if the Sox can land a controllable RF or SP in the package.

Other prospects to look to move for a RF or SP should be Sheets, Basabe, Rutherford, Gonzalez, Adolfo, Pilkington, Bush, Beard, Yolbert Sanchez, and all of the potential closer/back end relievers in the minors.

Not untouchable guys are Walker, Thompson, Dalquist, Lambert.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:29 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
From the MLB roster really only Bummer, Colome and Marshall have value at this point. Moving them in a package that doesn't yield a very quality long term piece doesn't make sense to me, not to mention depleting a pen that already has holes.

I really want to hold on to Stiever as he might actually be MLB ready come Aug and the Sox could really use a guy that doesn't have an injury history, and throws hard with plus secondary stuff that doesn't have control issues. He was found money last year, but his stuff backs up his performance for sure.

I think selling high on Collins makes sense now, if the Sox can land a controllable RF or SP in the package.

Other prospects to look to move for a RF or SP should be Sheets, Basabe, Rutherford, Gonzalez, Adolfo, Pilkington, Bush, Beard, Yolbert Sanchez, and all of the potential closer/back end relievers in the minors.

Not untouchable guys are Walker, Thompson, Dalquist, Lambert.
Is Collins really a sell-high? His problems are pretty well known, that he doesn't have a position, and that he strikes out too much, and he can't hit lefties. He has a chance to be a platoon DH, but I don't think many teams are going to pay up for that.

Most of the players you mention are coming off down years.
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Old 10-08-2019, 11:23 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is online now
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I don't see any of these guys bringing back an impact player. They might be able to use them to bring a starting-caliber RF if they eat salary. But the Sox biggest asset right now is payroll space (lowest projected payroll in the league next year if they don't make any moves). I'd rather they address their holes in free agency and hold onto the few tradable assets they have.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:25 AM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is online now
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Castellanos won't get a third of what Rendon will be getting. He would be very affordable to get for DH and rotating with Eloy in LF.
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:33 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blurry View Post
Fulmer is the one guy on the list I disagree with. He has zero trade value. Teams are going to wait until he gets dumped and someone will probably give him a minor league tryout.
Yes, you're probably right. I can see the other AL Central teams taking up a collection to pay his salary, on condition he continues to play for the Sox.
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:19 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I think Madrigal is probably worth more to us than to other teams. I suppose you could have teams like the Cubs who would place a super value on a guy like him. A high contact high average low K no power superior defender in the IF would make sense in a lineup of 3 outcome hitters, especially a team lacking a long term solution at the lead off spot. That said I don't know what they have that we would want.

If you look at it this way - we should see 2020 something like this

3b Moncada
SS Anderson
2b Madrigal

OF - Robert and Eloy

C - McCann

Bench - Garcia, Yolmer, Collins (who rotates 5 days a week at DH , 1b and C)

That leaves 1b/DH/OF open

Assume Abreu is back for one of the first 2 spots, that leaves DH/OF open

I would like us to run at Tsutsugo when he is posted. He has some big power potential and could be dangerous in the DH/Corner OF spot. He is risky sure, but he is going to cost 1/2 of what Castellanos or Rendon will cost, and they won't come here.

That should leave a lot of money free to address the rotation and bullpen

I am going all in, every chip I can, on Cole, and trying to round out with a guy like Zach Wheeler

Cole - Gio - Wheeler - Cease - Kopech is a REALLY good 1-5, leaves Lopez to move to the bullpen where he should really be more effective.
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2019, 12:20 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I think Madrigal is probably worth more to us than to other teams. I suppose you could have teams like the Cubs who would place a super value on a guy like him. A high contact high average low K no power superior defender in the IF would make sense in a lineup of 3 outcome hitters, especially a team lacking a long term solution at the lead off spot. That said I don't know what they have that we would want.

If you look at it this way - we should see 2020 something like this

3b Moncada
SS Anderson
2b Madrigal

OF - Robert and Eloy

C - McCann

Bench - Garcia, Yolmer, Collins (who rotates 5 days a week at DH , 1b and C)

That leaves 1b/DH/OF open

Assume Abreu is back for one of the first 2 spots, that leaves DH/OF open

I would like us to run at Tsutsugo when he is posted. He has some big power potential and could be dangerous in the DH/Corner OF spot. He is risky sure, but he is going to cost 1/2 of what Castellanos or Rendon will cost, and they won't come here.

That should leave a lot of money free to address the rotation and bullpen

I am going all in, every chip I can, on Cole, and trying to round out with a guy like Zach Wheeler

Cole - Gio - Wheeler - Cease - Kopech is a REALLY good 1-5, leaves Lopez to move to the bullpen where he should really be more effective.
If Madrigal could be the centerpiece of a Kris Bryant trade, I would make that deal. Madrigal, one of Walker/Rutherford, and one of Thompson/Dalquist/Pilkington for Bryant.

Bryant can play about 80 games at 3B with Moncada moving over to 2B. Moncada is a star; having him split time between 2B and 3B is not going to be a problem for him. He can also play about 10 games in LF, moving Eloy to DH. He can also play about 10 games at 1B, because I think about 10 days of rest spaced throughout the season may help Jose Abreu bust out of slumps sooner. He can also DH about 10 times to give himself a break.
Bryant's 40 remaining games can be played in RF.

He addresses 1/2 the 2B hole (via Moncada), 1/3 the OF hole, and fills the backup 1B need. He can also man 1B, RF, LF, or 3B exclusively in the event of an injury or another acquisition.

If the team is serious about winning a division in 2020, then this trade is well worth it. If the team is just going to half-ass this offseason like they have half-assed many previous offseasons, then they should just keep the prospect depth.
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  #12  
Old 10-08-2019, 12:24 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If Madrigal could be the centerpiece of a Kris Bryant trade, I would make that deal. Madrigal, one of Walker/Rutherford, and one of Thompson/Dalquist/Pilkington for Bryant.

Bryant can play about 80 games at 3B with Moncada moving over to 2B. Moncada is a star; having him split time between 2B and 3B is not going to be a problem for him. He can also play about 10 games in LF, moving Eloy to DH. He can also play about 10 games at 1B, because I think about 10 days of rest spaced throughout the season may help Jose Abreu bust out of slumps sooner. He can also DH about 10 times to give himself a break.
Bryant's 40 remaining games can be played in RF.

He addresses 1/2 the 2B hole (via Moncada), 1/3 the OF hole, and fills the backup 1B need. He can also man 1B, RF, LF, or 3B exclusively in the event of an injury or another acquisition.

If the team is serious about winning a division in 2020, then this trade is well worth it. If the team is just going to half-ass this offseason like they have half-assed many previous offseasons, then they should just keep the prospect depth.
I would make this trade in a second.
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  #13  
Old 10-08-2019, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If Madrigal could be the centerpiece of a Kris Bryant trade, I would make that deal. Madrigal, one of Walker/Rutherford, and one of Thompson/Dalquist/Pilkington for Bryant.

Bryant can play about 80 games at 3B with Moncada moving over to 2B. Moncada is a star; having him split time between 2B and 3B is not going to be a problem for him. He can also play about 10 games in LF, moving Eloy to DH. He can also play about 10 games at 1B, because I think about 10 days of rest spaced throughout the season may help Jose Abreu bust out of slumps sooner. He can also DH about 10 times to give himself a break.
Bryant's 40 remaining games can be played in RF.

He addresses 1/2 the 2B hole (via Moncada), 1/3 the OF hole, and fills the backup 1B need. He can also man 1B, RF, LF, or 3B exclusively in the event of an injury or another acquisition.

If the team is serious about winning a division in 2020, then this trade is well worth it. If the team is just going to half-ass this offseason like they have half-assed many previous offseasons, then they should just keep the prospect depth.
If Bryant can play RF, why not just stick him there and leave the rest alone. Try to get him for players not named Madrigal and it's win win.
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Old 10-08-2019, 01:47 PM
Heffalump Heffalump is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If Madrigal could be the centerpiece of a Kris Bryant trade, I would make that deal. Madrigal, one of Walker/Rutherford, and one of Thompson/Dalquist/Pilkington for Bryant.

Bryant can play about 80 games at 3B with Moncada moving over to 2B. Moncada is a star; having him split time between 2B and 3B is not going to be a problem for him. He can also play about 10 games in LF, moving Eloy to DH. He can also play about 10 games at 1B, because I think about 10 days of rest spaced throughout the season may help Jose Abreu bust out of slumps sooner. He can also DH about 10 times to give himself a break.
Bryant's 40 remaining games can be played in RF.

He addresses 1/2 the 2B hole (via Moncada), 1/3 the OF hole, and fills the backup 1B need. He can also man 1B, RF, LF, or 3B exclusively in the event of an injury or another acquisition.

If the team is serious about winning a division in 2020, then this trade is well worth it. If the team is just going to half-ass this offseason like they have half-assed many previous offseasons, then they should just keep the prospect depth.
I don't want to touch Bryant. Just my opinion, but I don't think he is ever going to be fully healthy AND return to his mega numbers from the past. I just don't think he is that good. And I don't want to mess with Moncada at 3B. He is going to be a beast next year. Focus on RF, DH, and pitching, pitching and more pitching. Stick with the plan of Madrigal at 2B and Robert in CF. 1B is Abreu until one of the minor league bats is ready.
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  #15  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:58 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
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Stiever strikes me as the most obvious trade bait in the system. But I would trade anyone in A-ball and frankly I would also trade Madrigal for an absolutely elite pitcher if there was an opportunity to do so. I know to many of you he is the messianic next coming of Nellie Fox you have been waiting for, but there is a serious risk his stuff doesn't translate to the MLB level.
This.

My only "untouchable" is Luis Robert. Andrew Vaughn is close to being another, but there may be some leeway there. If, say, the White Sox/Mookie Betts chatter isn't complete bull****, I would be willing to part with Andrew Vaughn in a package that got Betts here a year earlier. Anybody other than those guys definitely should be available in the right move.

If you're serious about pursuing Betts, you already know what your best offer will be after 2020. Get a 3-day window and make that pitch before 2020 instead. If the negotiation fails, the trade is off. However, if the negotiation succeeds, you get Mookie Betts as the very first hitter an opposing pitcher has to face. Either that, or you have Robert lead off and have Betts as his lineup protection.
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