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  #16  
Old 11-19-2019, 06:42 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Iím not sure it was the worst, but among the list of very bad trades was the acquisition of Nick Swisher. Gio Gonzalez could have been a solid contributor in our rotation for a long time.

The move was precipitated by the sense of desperation to fill the huge CF vacancy after the Angels swooped in to keep us from signing Torii Hunter. This was the first domino that fell, which led to a series of corresponding bad moves.

Imagine Hunter patrolling CF from 2008-2012, with Gio Gonzalez in the rotation starting in 2009.

Hunter over Swisher is probably worth at least a regular season win or two, which probably allows the Sox to win the 2008 AL Central without a Game 163. That means the Sox can stack their rotation to have Danks pitch both Game 1 and Game 4 of the ALDS against the Rays, who destroyed RHP but didnít hit LHP well. (Gonzalez also might have helped in relief in the 2008 ALDS.) Even with Crede and Quentin hurt, the Sox with Hunter, and Danks starting twice, have a decent shot at beating the Rays.

In 2009, with Hunter in CF, we donít have to make a waiver claim on Alex Rios, and with Gio in the rotation we donít have to rely on a fifth starter by committee until Jake Peavy arrives. They donít trade Thome, and maybe donít win the 2009 division but they make it closer.

In 2010, with Hunter, Gio, and Thome, instead of Rios, the fifth starter by committee, and Kotsay as DH, I think the team has resources to upgrade elsewhere and perhaps wins the division. And I think they would have been more competitive in 2011 and 2012, too, and avoided signing Adam Dunn.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2019, 06:53 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is online now
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Bill Veeck selling the team?
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2019, 07:16 PM
fungo bat fungo bat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
After the 1959 season when Veeck traded Norm Cash along with John Romano and Bubba Phillips to the Indians for Minnie Minoso and a couple of journeymen. At the time it was great to have Minnie back on the Southside but he was aging and had a fine season in 1960 but started to decline after that. Cash and Romano went on to have very good careers with Cash hitting almost 400 homers and winning a Batting Championship.

Veeck made 2 other clunker trades that off season trading away Earl Battey and Don Mincher to the old Senators for aging Roy Sievers and swapping Johnny Callison to the Phillies for Gene Freese.

Those 3 trades are probably the worst in Sox history.

What is amazing dispite those trades is that in a few years the Sox went on a roll in 63, 64 and 65 and IIRC won more games than any other team in MLB with 287 wins (94,98,95) but finished second all 3 years. This was accomplished with GM Ed Short making some very good trades bringing guys like Tommy John, Hoyt Wilhelm, Pete Ward and Juan Pizzaro to Comiskey Park.
Little Nell, you and I go back a few years. And yes, as much as I liked and admired Veeck these moves undermined the Sox for a few years, until we sent Aparicio and Al Smith to Baltimore after the '62 season in exchange for Ron Hansen, Pete Ward, Hoyt Wilhelm and Dave Nicholson.

A few years later the Sox front office made another major blunder, cutting a young local boy, Denny McClain and keeping Bruce Howard instead.
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:04 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by fungo bat View Post
Little Nell, you and I go back a few years. And yes, as much as I liked and admired Veeck these moves undermined the Sox for a few years, until we sent Aparicio and Al Smith to Baltimore after the '62 season in exchange for Ron Hansen, Pete Ward, Hoyt Wilhelm and Dave Nicholson.

A few years later the Sox front office made another major blunder, cutting a young local boy, Denny McClain and keeping Bruce Howard instead.
I was going to mention the McClain-Howard thing but I figured I rambled on a bit too much with ancient history.
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:06 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Bill Veeck selling the team?
He had no choice, free agency and lack of funds did him in. I often wonder what what would have happened if DeBartolo was able to buy the team.
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  #21  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:24 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
He had no choice, free agency and lack of funds did him in. I often wonder what what would have happened if DeBartolo was able to buy the team.
Veeck couldn't pay for free agents. He made trades that got us fans that last run in 1977.


Look at who voted no on DeBartolo being an owner...
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2019, 10:29 PM
XplodingScorbord XplodingScorbord is offline
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Originally Posted by hoosiersoxfan View Post
How about trading Sammy Sosa? I know the steroids led to everything and he ended up being a complete jackass but he gave Cubs fans so many years of excitement. Imagine how many more home runs Frank would have had with Sammy batting behind him throughout his prime years.
Yeah, but could you live with yourself?
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  #23  
Old 11-19-2019, 11:56 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I get that no one had a clue Tatis was going to be a star. Not any of the international reports had him anywhere near this.

But if you could undo that - that makes your future

2b Madrigal
SS Tatis
LF Eloy
CF Robert
3b Moncada
DH Abreu
1b Vaughn
RF Anderson
C - Grandal?

I mean, yah, good luck facing that lineup - 2-8 have 20 homer power +, MAybe 2-9 with money spent on a catcher, 1 is a high OBP lead off guy, its just sick sick sick good and you have any money you want to build the rotation....
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  #24  
Old 11-20-2019, 01:52 AM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I get that no one had a clue Tatis was going to be a star. Not any of the international reports had him anywhere near this.

But if you could undo that - that makes your future

2b Madrigal
SS Tatis
LF Eloy
CF Robert
3b Moncada
DH Abreu
1b Vaughn
RF Anderson
C - Grandal?

I mean, yah, good luck facing that lineup - 2-8 have 20 homer power +, MAybe 2-9 with money spent on a catcher, 1 is a high OBP lead off guy, its just sick sick sick good and you have any money you want to build the rotation....
To be fair, the White Sox might not have had any of the players in bold if they didn’t trade for Shields.
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  #25  
Old 11-20-2019, 08:05 AM
rainbow6 rainbow6 is offline
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This wonít be a popular one, but letting Ozzie Guillen walk. Replacing a manager who helped win a Championship with...who they did...still irks me.





Quote:
Originally Posted by JermaineDye05 View Post
To be fair, the White Sox might not have had any of the players in bold if they didnít trade for Shields.
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  #26  
Old 11-20-2019, 11:25 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
He had no choice, free agency and lack of funds did him in. I often wonder what what would have happened if DeBartolo was able to buy the team.
The 1980's and maybe even the 1990's White Sox would have been compared to the 1920's and 1930's Yankee teams in terms of dominance. For proof, look at the 49ers dominance during his tenure as their owner.

He was blocked because the other owners did not want a 49ers type of dominance in MLB. The main victim of that would have been the Cubs-their market presence in Chicago would have been obliterated.
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  #27  
Old 11-20-2019, 11:47 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
The 1980's and maybe even the 1990's White Sox would have been compared to the 1920's and 1930's Yankee teams in terms of dominance. For proof, look at the 49ers dominance during his tenure as their owner.

He was blocked because the other owners did not want a 49ers type of dominance in MLB. The main victim of that would have been the Cubs-their market presence in Chicago would have been obliterated.
He was also blocked because there were unsubstantiated rumors he was tied to the mob. It wasn't true, but they used it to claim he was too risky to own a team.
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  #28  
Old 11-20-2019, 11:53 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by rainbow6 View Post
This wonít be a popular one, but letting Ozzie Guillen walk. Replacing a manager who helped win a Championship with...who they did...still irks me.
They didnít let him walk. He basically quit on the team. Not much that could have been done about that.
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  #29  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:08 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Why was that a dumb move? At the time of the trade, Tatis was not on anyone's radar. He only had a name, but had not shown anything to go with his name.

20/20 does not make a deal a bad one.
Ad naseum, but that's a completely false statement. In a previous thread I pulled two separate articles from the time lambasting the Sox for giving up Tatis, one from ESPN and another from Baseball America.

Edit: Also, hindsight doesn't make a move bad? Are you kidding? He's being paid to have foresight.
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  #30  
Old 11-20-2019, 01:19 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
The 1980's and maybe even the 1990's White Sox would have been compared to the 1920's and 1930's Yankee teams in terms of dominance. For proof, look at the 49ers dominance during his tenure as their owner.

He was blocked because the other owners did not want a 49ers type of dominance in MLB. The main victim of that would have been the Cubs-their market presence in Chicago would have been obliterated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
He was also blocked because there were unsubstantiated rumors he was tied to the mob. It wasn't true, but they used it to claim he was too risky to own a team.
MLB knew it wasn't true because to buy an NFL team, prospective owners had to undergo a background check more stringent than clearance for national security purposes. They used former FBI people to do the checks.

At the time, some people said it was an anti-Italian bias by the owners, but I think Wrigley (they still owned the Cubs then) were very vocal because they knew their product would be extremely difficult to sell if there was a persistent World Series contender 8 miles south. I once read somewhere that the Sox team of the 1910's was so strong, the Cubs were considering moving to another city because they were losing market share (despite also being the Series that decade). The 1919 White Sox team pretty much made sure the Cubs would not have to leave......
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