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  #16  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:50 AM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
Is Collins really a sell-high? His problems are pretty well known, that he doesn't have a position, and that he strikes out too much, and he can't hit lefties. He has a chance to be a platoon DH, but I don't think many teams are going to pay up for that.

Most of the players you mention are coming off down years.
He's coming off of a pretty decent year as far as offensive numbers go, though I completely agree that he has his warts. Pretty much why I would feel OK trading him.

Unfortunately a large chunk of the top 30 for the Sox system is coming off down years or injured years. I essentially went through the top 20. There is still some value there, as prospects have never had more value in baseball as they do today.
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  #17  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
We don't have a good sense yet of how well Collins will do. The power/OBP upside potential is still there, even if he can't catch. I think the Sox brass still value him more highly than anyone else.

If you're looking for a bold sell-high candidate, how about Eloy? He looks like he's going to be a middle-of-the-order bat for the remainder of his contract. Could he bring back a #1 starter?
Trading a player who has a solid chance to post an OPS well over .900 for the next decade seems like a bad idea.
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  #18  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Stiever strikes me as the most obvious trade bait in the system. But I would trade anyone in A-ball and frankly I would also trade Madrigal for an absolutely elite pitcher if there was an opportunity to do so. I know to many of you he is the messianic next coming of Nellie Fox you have been waiting for, but there is a serious risk his stuff doesn't translate to the MLB level.
This.

My only "untouchable" is Luis Robert. Andrew Vaughn is close to being another, but there may be some leeway there. If, say, the White Sox/Mookie Betts chatter isn't complete bull****, I would be willing to part with Andrew Vaughn in a package that got Betts here a year earlier. Anybody other than those guys definitely should be available in the right move.

If you're serious about pursuing Betts, you already know what your best offer will be after 2020. Get a 3-day window and make that pitch before 2020 instead. If the negotiation fails, the trade is off. However, if the negotiation succeeds, you get Mookie Betts as the very first hitter an opposing pitcher has to face. Either that, or you have Robert lead off and have Betts as his lineup protection.
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  #19  
Old 10-08-2019, 12:20 PM
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I think Madrigal is probably worth more to us than to other teams. I suppose you could have teams like the Cubs who would place a super value on a guy like him. A high contact high average low K no power superior defender in the IF would make sense in a lineup of 3 outcome hitters, especially a team lacking a long term solution at the lead off spot. That said I don't know what they have that we would want.

If you look at it this way - we should see 2020 something like this

3b Moncada
SS Anderson
2b Madrigal

OF - Robert and Eloy

C - McCann

Bench - Garcia, Yolmer, Collins (who rotates 5 days a week at DH , 1b and C)

That leaves 1b/DH/OF open

Assume Abreu is back for one of the first 2 spots, that leaves DH/OF open

I would like us to run at Tsutsugo when he is posted. He has some big power potential and could be dangerous in the DH/Corner OF spot. He is risky sure, but he is going to cost 1/2 of what Castellanos or Rendon will cost, and they won't come here.

That should leave a lot of money free to address the rotation and bullpen

I am going all in, every chip I can, on Cole, and trying to round out with a guy like Zach Wheeler

Cole - Gio - Wheeler - Cease - Kopech is a REALLY good 1-5, leaves Lopez to move to the bullpen where he should really be more effective.
If Madrigal could be the centerpiece of a Kris Bryant trade, I would make that deal. Madrigal, one of Walker/Rutherford, and one of Thompson/Dalquist/Pilkington for Bryant.

Bryant can play about 80 games at 3B with Moncada moving over to 2B. Moncada is a star; having him split time between 2B and 3B is not going to be a problem for him. He can also play about 10 games in LF, moving Eloy to DH. He can also play about 10 games at 1B, because I think about 10 days of rest spaced throughout the season may help Jose Abreu bust out of slumps sooner. He can also DH about 10 times to give himself a break.
Bryant's 40 remaining games can be played in RF.

He addresses 1/2 the 2B hole (via Moncada), 1/3 the OF hole, and fills the backup 1B need. He can also man 1B, RF, LF, or 3B exclusively in the event of an injury or another acquisition.

If the team is serious about winning a division in 2020, then this trade is well worth it. If the team is just going to half-ass this offseason like they have half-assed many previous offseasons, then they should just keep the prospect depth.
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  #20  
Old 10-08-2019, 12:24 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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If Madrigal could be the centerpiece of a Kris Bryant trade, I would make that deal. Madrigal, one of Walker/Rutherford, and one of Thompson/Dalquist/Pilkington for Bryant.

Bryant can play about 80 games at 3B with Moncada moving over to 2B. Moncada is a star; having him split time between 2B and 3B is not going to be a problem for him. He can also play about 10 games in LF, moving Eloy to DH. He can also play about 10 games at 1B, because I think about 10 days of rest spaced throughout the season may help Jose Abreu bust out of slumps sooner. He can also DH about 10 times to give himself a break.
Bryant's 40 remaining games can be played in RF.

He addresses 1/2 the 2B hole (via Moncada), 1/3 the OF hole, and fills the backup 1B need. He can also man 1B, RF, LF, or 3B exclusively in the event of an injury or another acquisition.

If the team is serious about winning a division in 2020, then this trade is well worth it. If the team is just going to half-ass this offseason like they have half-assed many previous offseasons, then they should just keep the prospect depth.
I would make this trade in a second.
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  #21  
Old 10-08-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If Madrigal could be the centerpiece of a Kris Bryant trade, I would make that deal. Madrigal, one of Walker/Rutherford, and one of Thompson/Dalquist/Pilkington for Bryant.

Bryant can play about 80 games at 3B with Moncada moving over to 2B. Moncada is a star; having him split time between 2B and 3B is not going to be a problem for him. He can also play about 10 games in LF, moving Eloy to DH. He can also play about 10 games at 1B, because I think about 10 days of rest spaced throughout the season may help Jose Abreu bust out of slumps sooner. He can also DH about 10 times to give himself a break.
Bryant's 40 remaining games can be played in RF.

He addresses 1/2 the 2B hole (via Moncada), 1/3 the OF hole, and fills the backup 1B need. He can also man 1B, RF, LF, or 3B exclusively in the event of an injury or another acquisition.

If the team is serious about winning a division in 2020, then this trade is well worth it. If the team is just going to half-ass this offseason like they have half-assed many previous offseasons, then they should just keep the prospect depth.
If Bryant can play RF, why not just stick him there and leave the rest alone. Try to get him for players not named Madrigal and it's win win.
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  #22  
Old 10-08-2019, 01:13 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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This is where the struggles of just about everybody in AA this year hurts. If Sheets, Rutherford, Basabe and/or Adolfo had good years, they'd be ideal pieces to move.

Right now the only prospects the Sox have that teams would probably want for a major league piece are Robert, Madrigal and MAYBE Vaughn. Steele Walker could probably be packaged with someone for a major league piece, but I kind of feel like the Sox are in a spot where to address a hole via trade they'd wind up creating another one they'd have to fill.
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  #23  
Old 10-08-2019, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
This is where the struggles of just about everybody in AA this year hurts. If Sheets, Rutherford, Basabe and/or Adolfo had good years, they'd be ideal pieces to move.

Right now the only prospects the Sox have that teams would probably want for a major league piece are Robert, Madrigal and MAYBE Vaughn. Steele Walker could probably be packaged with someone for a major league piece, but I kind of feel like the Sox are in a spot where to address a hole via trade they'd wind up creating another one they'd have to fill.
I think a package deal can still be effective with one or two of the people you mention, Flores or Stiever or Pikington with guys like Leury and Mendick as "ready to play now" pieces that might give coverage to a team willing to part with a bat or SP. Leury in particular might be of interest as a stopgap to a team willing to part with a RF.
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  #24  
Old 10-08-2019, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
If Bryant can play RF, why not just stick him there and leave the rest alone. Try to get him for players not named Madrigal and it's win win.
Any package for Bryant would take one of our top prospects. I don't think the Cubs would ever considering parting with him without getting someone like Madrigal, Vaughn, or Robert in return. Bryant is an MVP caliber player entering his prime.
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  #25  
Old 10-08-2019, 01:40 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I think a package deal can still be effective with one or two of the people you mention, Flores or Stiever or Pikington with guys like Leury and Mendick as "ready to play now" pieces that might give coverage to a team willing to part with a bat or SP. Leury in particular might be of interest as a stopgap to a team willing to part with a RF.
I really don't think you're going to get much of anything in return from those guys. Maybe a sixth-starter swingman type or someone off the bench, but I don't think a team would trade away any sort of quality piece for bench players and a lottery ticket.
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  #26  
Old 10-08-2019, 01:42 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Any package for Bryant would take one of our top prospects. I don't think the Cubs would ever considering parting with him without getting someone like Madrigal, Vaughn, or Robert in return. Bryant is an MVP caliber player entering his prime.
I think he means that Madrigal has a place on the 2020 team, trading Vaughn makes more sense as he might not be ready till '21.
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  #27  
Old 10-08-2019, 01:47 PM
Heffalump Heffalump is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If Madrigal could be the centerpiece of a Kris Bryant trade, I would make that deal. Madrigal, one of Walker/Rutherford, and one of Thompson/Dalquist/Pilkington for Bryant.

Bryant can play about 80 games at 3B with Moncada moving over to 2B. Moncada is a star; having him split time between 2B and 3B is not going to be a problem for him. He can also play about 10 games in LF, moving Eloy to DH. He can also play about 10 games at 1B, because I think about 10 days of rest spaced throughout the season may help Jose Abreu bust out of slumps sooner. He can also DH about 10 times to give himself a break.
Bryant's 40 remaining games can be played in RF.

He addresses 1/2 the 2B hole (via Moncada), 1/3 the OF hole, and fills the backup 1B need. He can also man 1B, RF, LF, or 3B exclusively in the event of an injury or another acquisition.

If the team is serious about winning a division in 2020, then this trade is well worth it. If the team is just going to half-ass this offseason like they have half-assed many previous offseasons, then they should just keep the prospect depth.
I don't want to touch Bryant. Just my opinion, but I don't think he is ever going to be fully healthy AND return to his mega numbers from the past. I just don't think he is that good. And I don't want to mess with Moncada at 3B. He is going to be a beast next year. Focus on RF, DH, and pitching, pitching and more pitching. Stick with the plan of Madrigal at 2B and Robert in CF. 1B is Abreu until one of the minor league bats is ready.
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  #28  
Old 10-08-2019, 02:16 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Trading a player who has a solid chance to post an OPS well over .900 for the next decade seems like a bad idea.
Everyone's tradeable if you get back something that's more valuable to you than what you gave away.

If Eloy brought back a #1 starter with some cost control, which mind you I think is unlikely, then you would have to consider it. Left fielders are a lot easier to find than #1 starters.
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  #29  
Old 10-08-2019, 02:20 PM
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If the Sox trade no one and acquire all their new players via free agency, I'll be a happy fan.
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  #30  
Old 10-08-2019, 02:25 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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If the Sox trade no one and acquire all their new players via free agency, I'll be a happy fan.
If the Sox trade no one, the spare parts are only going to lose value. So even if they acquire all their new players via free agency they should be trading those spare parts for prospects.
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