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  #436  
Old 11-28-2019, 05:35 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Regarding the Collins issue raised in the Yolmer Sanchez thread I feel you have to give Collins ABs or you have to move him. If you move him, you'd better have depth at catcher. That means McCann and Grandal.

I am not going to assume that Collins gives the team thirty games of awfulness behind the plate. Can Collins play average/plus defensively at first base?

I’m all for bringing in someone who can keep Rick Renteria from Leurying and Mendicking and Engeling this team out of playoff contention.

You want playoff contention? Or do you want playoff success? I want the latter. That means you'd better tighten up the defense in the IF and OF.

So far, to its credit, ownership is fulfilling its part of the bargain and bankrolling some talent. Now is the time when Hahn needs to make some gutsy decisions about which prospects to trade to make the team better. That may have to include guys like Steele Walker, Jonathan Stiever, and yes, Zack Collins.

Of those three I certainly let Stiever develop; I don't move him unless overwhelmed. He might be better than Kopech, Cease and the new and improved Carlos Rodon. This team needs pitching terribly. This organization needs to develop talent and that includes keeping their pitchers healthy. The organization also needs pitching help from outside the organization. Go get some.

I also let the young OFers play out. That includes Walker. This OF, that includes Robert in CF, is far from being a set piece on a championship calibre team.
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  #437  
Old 11-28-2019, 08:00 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Regarding the Collins issue raised in the Yolmer Sanchez thread I feel you have to give Collins ABs or you have to move him. If you move him, you'd better have depth at catcher. That means McCann and Grandal.
I agree with this. In the 100+ games against RH starters, given who is on the roster presently, it makes the most sense to have Collins do most of the DHing and catch perhaps one game per week.

I think this actually is one of the best scenarios for Collinsí development. Heíll be free to learn how to attack opposing hitters from McCann, and free to learn how to frame pitches from Grandal. When the Sox are in the field, as a DH/PH, Collins can sit next to whomever isnít catching that day and pick his brain.

Yet as a DH, heíll also get those critical plate appearances against major league pitchers.

Collins isnít going to have this opportunity if heís catching every day, or platooning with Mercedes, in Charlotte.

Against LHP, it makes sense to have McCann catching and Grandal as DH or 1B (with Abreu as DH).
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  #438  
Old 11-28-2019, 10:35 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
I agree with this. In the 100+ games against RH starters, given who is on the roster presently, it makes the most sense to have Collins do most of the DHing and catch perhaps one game per week.

I think this actually is one of the best scenarios for Collinsí development. Heíll be free to learn how to attack opposing hitters from McCann, and free to learn how to frame pitches from Grandal. When the Sox are in the field, as a DH/PH, Collins can sit next to whomever isnít catching that day and pick his brain.

Yet as a DH, heíll also get those critical plate appearances against major league pitchers.

Collins isnít going to have this opportunity if heís catching every day, or platooning with Mercedes, in Charlotte.

Against LHP, it makes sense to have McCann catching and Grandal as DH or 1B (with Abreu as DH).
I agree with this, though Iím thinking the Sox starting pitcher will probably determine whether itís Grandal or McCann begins the plate on any given day, more so than the opposing pitcher. However, in light of the Abreu extension, I think the Sox are planning on this being a one-year plan. Vaughn is likely to be ready by May 2021, at which time he and Abreu will share DH/1B. I think the Sox are hoping that by that time Collins is ready to take on the backup C role. If he doesnít develop defensively by then they can extend McCann and look to trade Collins (as long as his bat is developed enough that somebody wants him).
  #439  
Old 11-28-2019, 11:22 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
I agree with this, though Iím thinking the Sox starting pitcher will probably determine whether itís Grandal or McCann begins the plate on any given day, more so than the opposing pitcher. However, in light of the Abreu extension, I think the Sox are planning on this being a one-year plan. Vaughn is likely to be ready by May 2021, at which time he and Abreu will share DH/1B. I think the Sox are hoping that by that time Collins is ready to take on the backup C role. If he doesnít develop defensively by then they can extend McCann and look to trade Collins (as long as his bat is developed enough that somebody wants him).
I agree. The only wrinkle is that Sheets - taking advantage of the cozy dimensions at Charlotte and the MLB bouncy ball in AAA - may also force himself into the 2021 conversation, either as someone who also earns ABs, or as a trade candidate.
  #440  
Old 11-30-2019, 05:31 PM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
I agree. The only wrinkle is that Sheets - taking advantage of the cozy dimensions at Charlotte and the MLB bouncy ball in AAA - may also force himself into the 2021 conversation, either as someone who also earns ABs, or as a trade candidate.
Sheets will need to show he can hit for power, though. His position pretty much requires it. He has shown encouraging signs so far though, and the fact that he can seemingly hit for a respectable average is also a good sign.
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  #441  
Old 12-02-2019, 10:07 AM
blurry blurry is offline
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https://www.soxmachine.com/2019/12/0...act-extension/

Jim Margalus takes a look at what a Robert or Madrigal extension might entail. Extending Robert (or even Vaughn) would make more sense than Madrigal right now. But it's interesting filler in a dead period of the offseason.
  #442  
Old 12-02-2019, 11:37 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
https://www.soxmachine.com/2019/12/0...act-extension/

Jim Margalus takes a look at what a Robert or Madrigal extension might entail. Extending Robert (or even Vaughn) would make more sense than Madrigal right now. But it's interesting filler in a dead period of the offseason.
So the idea is to extend a player that has not seen one MLB regular season pitch?
  #443  
Old 12-02-2019, 11:39 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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So the idea is to extend a player that has not seen one MLB regular season pitch?
Yes, if it avoids the whole "service time" issue and other factors why not? These are players they expect to be major parts of the coming window and are considered very low risk of being busts.

Edit: But unless I miss my guess this is just one writer's guess at what it would take to get it done.
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  #444  
Old 12-02-2019, 11:45 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Yes, if it avoids the whole "service time" issue and other factors why not? These are players they expect to be major parts of the coming window and are considered very low risk of being busts.

Edit: But unless I miss my guess this is just one writer's guess at what it would take to get it done.
Thanks; just asking. What a typical contract like that (a 'lock-in') look like regarding term and dollars?
  #445  
Old 12-02-2019, 12:03 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Thanks; just asking. What a typical contract like that (a 'lock-in') look like regarding term and dollars?
Eloy got a 6-year, $43M deal (with 2 option years for the Sox) in March before he ever saw a major league pitch:
https://www.milb.com/milb/news/chica...al/c-305472518

That doesn't mean Robert and Madrigal would get the same deals, of course. I'm guessing Robert would likely get higher and Madrigal would get lower.
  #446  
Old 12-02-2019, 12:22 PM
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If anyone is getting an extension, it should be Moncada. Everyone else is under team control for the long haul.
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  #447  
Old 12-02-2019, 12:36 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Eloy got a 6-year, $43M deal (with 2 option years for the Sox) in March before he ever saw a major league pitch:
https://www.milb.com/milb/news/chica...al/c-305472518

That doesn't mean Robert and Madrigal would get the same deals, of course. I'm guessing Robert would likely get higher and Madrigal would get lower.
Thanks; I thought of Eloy. From what I heard second hand was that Robert is a man among the boys down on the farm. The sound of the ball off his bat is incredible.

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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If anyone is getting an extension, it should be Moncada. Everyone else is under team control for the long haul.
The horse has left the barn. if you do for one you have to do for another. Especially if the latter is on track the be better than the former.

Regarding your quote I wholeheartedly agree with extending Moncada.
  #448  
Old 12-02-2019, 12:42 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Not sure if this was brought up, but I don't know that Robert will have the urge to lock in. Keep in mind, he got a MASSIVE signing bonus to come over, so where some of these guys could use the money, he is probably pretty set up.
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  #449  
Old 12-02-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Thanks; I thought of Eloy. From what I heard second hand was that Robert is a man among the boys down on the farm. The sound of the ball off his bat is incredible.


The horse has left the barn. if you do for one you have to do for another. Especially if the latter is on track the be better than the former.

Regarding your quote I wholeheartedly agree with extending Moncada.
Yes to extending Moncada if possible.

As pointed out in the article it might take a lot more than Eloy to sign Robert long term. He already has $26M in his pocket. He doesn't need money like some of the others do. Madrigal has already made $6M also so he might want to wait and see before taking an extension. Eloy had been paid $3M but that doesn't go as far as the other numbers when you take into account taxes and agent fees plus relocating. If he's going to be in Chicago the next 6 years I'm sure he wanted to buy a nice house and he wasn't going to do that on whatever he had left and league minimum extensions for the next 3 years.
  #450  
Old 12-02-2019, 01:04 PM
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Yes to extending Moncada if possible.

As pointed out in the article it might take a lot more than Eloy to sign Robert long term. He already has $26M in his pocket. He doesn't need money like some of the others do. Madrigal has already made $6M also so he might want to wait and see before taking an extension. Eloy had been paid $3M but that doesn't go as far as the other numbers when you take into account taxes and agent fees plus relocating. If he's going to be in Chicago the next 6 years I'm sure he wanted to buy a nice house and he wasn't going to do that on whatever he had left and league minimum extensions for the next 3 years.
Speaking of being set and likely willing tti wait it for FA, Moncada got paid big, too. He will be a real test to re-sign, IMO, but I hope Hahn is working hard at it
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