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  #196  
Old 01-17-2020, 08:56 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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I wonder if any of this is responsible for the insane home run spike in recent years. Altered ball + swing alterations based on advanced analytics + knowing what pitch is coming = an assault on the record books?
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  #197  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:36 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
What bothers me about that Boston-happy media is that this cheating scandal remains only the Astros scandal. Boston did the exact same thing (more sophisticated perhaps) and was caught a second time. Yet are we hearing anything else about the Red Sox?

When the initial allegations came out, Rosenthal and others clearly said the investigation should not end with the Astros. There were comments regarding to this being very widespread in baseball and having been going on a long time. MLB wants this to die and for this to be the Astros cross to bear. They're guilty yes, and deserved their punishment. But there's probably a lot more out there.

I heard on the radio yesterday one of the commentators saying the teams/media/fan bases howling the loudest about this (i.e. NY and LA) should be real careful, given there might be more coming out down the road.
Lots of reasons why the attention is on the Astros right now:

(a) Fiers initial allegations which set this all off had to do with his time with the Astros, (b) Cora apparently devised this scheme while he was with the Astros, and (c) the investigation into the Red Sox is still ongoing, I'm sure when that report is released they will get the attention. Outside the Astros and Red Sox there is no concrete evidence that another team is doing something like this that I am aware of. That's not to say it didn't happen, just that there is no evidence as of yet.
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  #198  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:49 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I personally think this is going to be like steroids, its happening a lot more in a lot more places than people think.
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  #199  
Old 01-17-2020, 09:51 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
What bothers me about that Boston-happy media is that this cheating scandal remains only the Astros scandal. Boston did the exact same thing (more sophisticated perhaps) and was caught a second time. Yet are we hearing anything else about the Red Sox?

When the initial allegations came out, Rosenthal and others clearly said the investigation should not end with the Astros. There were comments regarding to this being very widespread in baseball and having been going on a long time. MLB wants this to die and for this to be the Astros cross to bear. They're guilty yes, and deserved their punishment. But there's probably a lot more out there.

I heard on the radio yesterday one of the commentators saying the teams/media/fan bases howling the loudest about this (i.e. NY and LA) should be real careful, given there might be more coming out down the road.
I think there are actually a few big differences between what Houston did and what Boston did (or at least is accused of doing):
  1. Boston used monitors that were accessible to both teams. So if the Red Sox were stealing signs, their opponents theoretically had the opportunity to do the exact same thing. Houston installed a monitor that only they had access to, the opposing team did not have any access to that monitor.
  1. The Red Sox system could only work with a runner on base, which is when a team would normally attempt to steal signs anyways. Since there was an eight-second delay on the monitors, the opposing team had the chance to change up their signs and render whatever the Red Sox were doing moot.
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  #200  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:18 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Ex-Sox catcher Kevan Smith discusses the exchange he had on the mound with Danny Farquhar in that now-infamous video of them catching on to the sign-stealing:

https://triblive.com/sports/ex-white...had-something/
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  #201  
Old 01-17-2020, 01:04 PM
Jollyroger2 Jollyroger2 is offline
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Well, now our own Jack McDowell has come out saying the White Sox stole signs with a camera under La Russia in the late 80s. Radio show reported by Sporting News. Like I said, this thing is going to blow sky high before it’s over.

I’m in the car, will provide a link when I can.

Mod edit: Here's a link to the thread in the Clubhouse forum discussing Jack's comments:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/v...d.php?t=149498

Last edited by voodoochile; 01-17-2020 at 01:27 PM.
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  #202  
Old 01-17-2020, 02:12 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
Well there's nothing yet in mainstream (espn, mlb) about this yet. Apparently Beltran's camp has already come out and said that twitter account (which is now gone) wasn't legit. So who knows.

Makes no sense that if this was true it wouldn't have been disclosed already. I can get the Houston players potentially lying but why, if the beans were already spilling. And they interviewed so many non-Astros and former Astros, nobody mentioned this?

At this point any accusation will carry some weight, but MLB has to be careful with that.
Gary Sheffield Jr and others claim the Twitter burner account belonged to a current player which would make more sense than Beltran's niece. Someone with inside knowledge owned that account.

No one can prove that Altuve was wired up and that's why he made a mad dash for the clubhouse rather than celebrate on the field with his teammates but it's more plausible than him being shy about his jersey getting ripped off. Half his IG is him shirtless. Everything about that was weird. Why anyone would want to give him the benefit of the doubt after the Astros have already been proven guilty of cheating is beyond me.

IMO, any player who they can prove cheated should get a lifetime ban. This is much worse than PEDs IMO.
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  #203  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:04 PM
Jollyroger2 Jollyroger2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
Gary Sheffield Jr and others claim the Twitter burner account belonged to a current player which would make more sense than Beltran's niece. Someone with inside knowledge owned that account.

No one can prove that Altuve was wired up and that's why he made a mad dash for the clubhouse rather than celebrate on the field with his teammates but it's more plausible than him being shy about his jersey getting ripped off. Half his IG is him shirtless. Everything about that was weird. Why anyone would want to give him the benefit of the doubt after the Astros have already been proven guilty of cheating is beyond me.

IMO, any player who they can prove cheated should get a lifetime ban. This is much worse than PEDs IMO.
I hear you, but unsubstantiated witch hunt stuff isn't the answer either. Any player or person with an axe to grind can create a burner account then and say they saw or know something. Is that what we're in for all season?

If they can prove certain players cheated, then yes there should be additional punishment. I don't think lifetime but at least the 60 game type. The shirt thing needs more for me. Correa had his shirt torn to pieces after his walk-off homer in Game 2 vs. the Yankees and there was nothing. You can probably google hundreds of pictures of ballplayers with suspicious bulges or crinkles in their jerseys.

As I said before I'd be very surprised that if after 3 months of investigation MLB didn't have some witness, with so many non-Astros or ex-Astros interviewed, that would have spoken up about anything additional. MLB was pretty quick to acknowledge they did look into this and found nothing. I agree, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, but they need something concrete.

I do disagree that this is worse than PEDs. Cheating is cheating. That Yankee dynasty of the 90s was built on guys bulking up. Verducci's book The Yankee Years clearly comments on Clemens's "personal trainer" that the Yankees added to the payroll who's job was to do nothing more than shoot him up. He went 3-0 in the WS for NY and 7-4 overall in the postseason with a 2.97 ERA. Never mind others like Petite or Rodriguez that were proven juicers who were key members of those title teams.

I keep saying MLB wants this to die, wants it to be just the Astros scandal, and leave it at that. That's not happening. McDowell's revelations today are probably just the beginning of people coming forward on other allegations. Going to be an interesting season for sure.
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  #204  
Old 01-18-2020, 09:07 AM
blurry blurry is offline
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Congress is getting involved: https://sports.yahoo.com/congressman...224137364.html

I'm generally not for political meddling but considering baseball has an antitrust exemption from Congress, I wouldn't mind seeing some of these coaches and players get put in front of a committee and asked publicly what they knew and what they did. This also considering that Manfred and MLB are very likely hiding way more information than they let on. News is STILL coming out about what the Astros were doing and what we've seen was just the tip of the iceberg.
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  #205  
Old 01-18-2020, 08:22 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
Congress is getting involved:

I'm generally not for political meddling but considering baseball has an antitrust exemption from Congress, I wouldn't mind seeing some of these coaches and players get put in front of a committee and asked publicly what they knew and what they did.
Congress should do their job and quit meddling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
I do disagree that this is worse than PEDs.
So do I baseball thrived off that era of baseball all knowing and approving just to get the fan's to forget about the strike.

The fans, as usual, lapped it up.
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Last edited by Grzegorz; 01-18-2020 at 09:00 PM.
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  #206  
Old 01-19-2020, 01:29 PM
Jollyroger2 Jollyroger2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Congress should do their job and quit meddling.



So do I baseball thrived off that era of baseball all knowing and approving just to get the fan's to forget about the strike.

The fans, as usual, lapped it up.
Agree on both counts.

It's not just the stats and fan interest that was influenced by the steroids either. The Yankees were talented yes, just like the Astros, but if they had key members roiding up then those titles are just as worthy of asterisks as Houston or Boston's titles. Same for Oakland 89-90.
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  #207  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:20 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Congress got outwitted by Sammy ****ing Sosa.

People say they should do their job and quit meddling, but really, isn’t not doing anything of substance and meddling basically their job?

Sorry, probably too political.
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  #208  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:28 PM
WSox597 WSox597 is offline
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I found this cute meme today, just had to post it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sign Astros.jpg (34.6 KB, 37 views)
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  #209  
Old 01-21-2020, 12:55 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Just read this article today written by Jason Stark (now with The Athletic) on predictions for the next decade (no, not the "who will win" predictions that everyone seems to think are a waste of time).

In the article, he suggests that in the next few years, pitchers, catchers, and someone in the dugout (pitching coach? "defensive coordinator"?) will be wearing something like an Apple watch to communicate pitch calls.

https://theathletic.com/1521278/2020...f-this-decade/
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  #210  
Old 02-08-2020, 09:30 AM
blurry blurry is offline
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/houston...er-11581112994

This is just getting worse and worse. Everyone here looks awful. The people who designed this cheating system should've gotten lifetime bans. Manfred should've given the players involved a full season ban and fought the MLBPA on it; I'm not normally one for circumventing union rules but these offenses were highly egregious.

I'm 100% aboard the Boo Train when the Astros are in town this season and I think everyone else is as well. **** the Houston Astros.
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