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  #61  
Old 02-25-2020, 09:52 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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He does have a fairly legit concern on Madrigal though. Basically his opinion has always been because heís just a singles guy without a great eye, better pitchers like the bigs have will exploit that and keep his average down. Not saying I agree with it but if thatís your take then he isnít a top 100 prospect.

Law also knows how to play his schtick up, he ever says in the article he clearly hates your favorite teaM. Iím not a big Law fan - was disappointed he went to the athletic, but I donít know that the grades arenít fair for how he views the players.
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  #62  
Old 02-25-2020, 10:31 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
He does have a fairly legit concern on Madrigal though. Basically his opinion has always been because heís just a singles guy without a great eye, better pitchers like the bigs have will exploit that and keep his average down. Not saying I agree with it but if thatís your take then he isnít a top 100 prospect.

Law also knows how to play his schtick up, he ever says in the article he clearly hates your favorite teaM. Iím not a big Law fan - was disappointed he went to the athletic, but I donít know that the grades arenít fair for how he views the players.
I think there are legit questions on Madrigal. Even the guys from FanGraphs, who are really high on him, say that his comp is Nellie Fox and they don't really know how someone like Nellie Fox would play in today's game, but they also pointed out his defense and ability on the bases could/should compensate for a lack of power.
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  #63  
Old 02-25-2020, 12:45 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is online now
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The concerns about lack of power are a legitimate one and there's nothing wrong with questioning how it'll play in the majors. I'm still very optimistic about him, though. I won't elaborate any further because we already have a thread in What's The Score for people to argue about Nick Madrigal ad nauseum.

At any rate, I couldn't care less where Law ranks him. His opinions won't affect the real-world outcome one way or another. He's just one pundit, and a rather brittle one at that. I don't agree with his leaving Nick off the top 100, but whatever. In a couple of months, we'll see Madrigal action in the majors and we'll be able to see for ourselves how he does.
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  #64  
Old 02-25-2020, 05:25 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
The concerns about lack of power are a legitimate one and there's nothing wrong with questioning how it'll play in the majors. I'm still very optimistic about him, though. I won't elaborate any further because we already have a thread in What's The Score for people to argue about Nick Madrigal ad nauseum.

At any rate, I couldn't care less where Law ranks him. His opinions won't affect the real-world outcome one way or another. He's just one pundit, and a rather brittle one at that. I don't agree with his leaving Nick off the top 100, but whatever. In a couple of months, we'll see Madrigal action in the majors and we'll be able to see for ourselves how he does.
I feel the exact same way, and to be honest if you read his comments I think LAW feels that way. Law knows he is just an opinion, and thats why he doesn't care where anyone falls on a different list.
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  #65  
Old 02-28-2020, 02:28 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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https://www.mlb.com/news/white-sox-2...eline-coverage

MLB Pipeline put out their list today.
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  #66  
Old 02-28-2020, 04:47 PM
SoxSpeed22 SoxSpeed22 is offline
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Kinda surprised they thought that highly of Thompson, but the upside is there, so it makes sense. Hopefully he surprises me this year. And Dunning seems to be in good spirits, so I'm looking forward to seeing him back.
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  #67  
Old 02-28-2020, 05:43 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is online now
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
https://www.mlb.com/news/white-sox-2...eline-coverage

MLB Pipeline put out their list today.
Jake Burger is on the list at 15? Wow! Until I see him actually play in a game, I consider him a non-prospect at this point. Out of action for 2 years and I haven't even heard if he's in spring training this year.

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Originally Posted by SoxSpeed22 View Post
Kinda surprised they thought that highly of Thompson, but the upside is there, so it makes sense. Hopefully he surprises me this year. And Dunning seems to be in good spirits, so I'm looking forward to seeing him back.
Wasn't Dunning scheduled to throw live BP today? I wonder how that went? It'll be interesting to see how Thompson, Dalquist, and newly-signed Norge Vera perform this year.
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  #68  
Old 02-28-2020, 08:52 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Yeah, this is a lazy list. Burgerís a non-prospect at this point, a future DH if he comes back at all.

Yermin Mercedesí power seems to be real. Certainly better than the 45 they gave him.

With Thompson, how does a 60 fastball, a 55 curve, a 50 change and 50 control yield a 45 overall? And Dunning, with a 60 fastball, three more 55 pitches and 55 control, is a 50 overall? And Stiever, who is healthy and has two pitches graded 60, a 55 slider, a 50 changeup and 55 control is still only a 50 overall??

What is pulling those overall grades down? Bias against pitchers because of higher risk?
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  #69  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:00 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Yeah, this is a lazy list. Burgerís a non-prospect at this point, a future DH if he comes back at all.

Yermin Mercedesí power seems to be real. Certainly better than the 45 they gave him.

With Thompson, how does a 60 fastball, a 55 curve, a 50 change and 50 control yield a 45 overall? And Dunning, with a 60 fastball, three more 55 pitches and 55 control, is a 50 overall? And Stiever, who is healthy and has two pitches graded 60, a 55 slider, a 50 changeup and 55 control is still only a 50 overall??

What is pulling those overall grades down? Bias against pitchers because of higher risk?
Maybe they see Thompson maxing-out as a reliever and Stiever maxing-out as a #5 starter.
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  #70  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:08 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Maybe they see Thompson maxing-out as a reliever and Stiever maxing-out as a #5 starter.
It seems to be a systematic bias against pitchers. The whole is always less than the sum of the parts.

If Stiever has four pitches - 60, 60, 55 and 50 - and above-average control, plus so far heís been healthy and shown plus stamina, thatís a #3 at worst.
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  #71  
Old 02-28-2020, 09:45 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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You have to differentiate between individual pitch grades and what a 50 means

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/scouting...couting-scale/

They are basically saying they see those guys as mid rotation SP. The fastball is graded high because of velocity. Those are not bad grades. Not everyone is going to be an ace.
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  #72  
Old 02-29-2020, 02:54 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Yeah, this is a lazy list. Burgerís a non-prospect at this point, a future DH if he comes back at all.
Why is Burger either of those things? The kid plays a solid 3B and is only 23 years old. I agree that he has a lot to prove, but he's not devoid of tools.
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  #73  
Old 02-29-2020, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Why is Burger either of those things? The kid plays a solid 3B and is only 23 years old. I agree that he has a lot to prove, but he's not devoid of tools.
I admit I had no idea Burger was that young. I assumed he was 25+ after two years off. He'll be 24 this April, but still time if he can regain his form. If he does that at minimum he's a nice piece of trade bait.
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  #74  
Old 02-29-2020, 10:33 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Why is Burger either of those things? The kid plays a solid 3B and is only 23 years old. I agree that he has a lot to prove, but he's not devoid of tools.
.

I think heís a non-prospect because heís been out for so long that he has no baseline. All that college ball is out the window.

And I donít think he has the mobility to play the field. Not after two years of Achilles problems, and delay upon delay. Honestly, I doubt heíll even play again.

Harsh, but he has to prove doubters like me wrong.
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  #75  
Old 03-01-2020, 08:31 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I think heís a non-prospect because heís been out for so long that he has no baseline. All that college ball is out the window.

And I donít think he has the mobility to play the field. Not after two years of Achilles problems, and delay upon delay. Honestly, I doubt heíll even play again.

Harsh, but he has to prove doubters like me wrong.
Sadly, I think it is likely that you are correct.

If so, itís probably up to Gavin Sheets to salvage the 2017 Sox draft class. Beyond that, Luis Gonzalez is probably a fourth OF at best, and there might be some eventual bullpen help from among Lincoln Henzman, Tyler Johnson, and Kade McClure.
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