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  #61  
Old 05-16-2019, 07:46 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
This is a false statement based on how the team handled Eloy last year.
What is false is that Eloy can play a stitch of OF defense. That falls, first and foremost on the player, and most certainly on the organization that fell for EJ's camp saying he's being held back though MLB ready.
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  #62  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:23 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I'm not writing off Eloy's ability to be an adequate LF 21 games into his career.

Ventura was hitless in his first 41 big league at bats.

Kittle stumbled all around LF.

Garland sucked for most of his first 5 seasons in the big leagues.

Giolito and Moncada both looked overmatched last season- looking good this season.

Anderson looked like he couldn't make a varsity high school team as a shortstop in spring training a few years ago.

The game comes at you pretty fast when those 2nd and 3rd decks kick in- give the kid a full season- let's see what we have and go from there.
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  #63  
Old 05-16-2019, 08:27 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I saw him play for Charlotte and posted here that he was a future DH.
You certainly did. There were a few others as well. We canít say we had no warning.
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  #64  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:17 AM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
What is false is that Eloy can play a stitch of OF defense. That falls, first and foremost on the player, and most certainly on the organization that fell for EJ's camp saying he's being held back though MLB ready.
So your contention is that the Sox promoted Eloy solely because his agents were upset that he wasn't promoted last year?
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  #65  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:33 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Some people sure know a lot just from being fans!
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  #66  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:41 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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So your contention is that the Sox promoted Eloy solely because his agents were upset that he wasn't promoted last year?
It certainly was a major factor. Not only were Eloy and his team threatening to file a grievance, but the sports media was ready to make both Eloy and Vlad, Jr into heroes and run a far-reaching PR campaign that would have made the Sox and Jays look very, very bad.

The major factor, of course, was that Eloy and the team agreed to a team-friendly long-term deal that neutralized one of the major downsides of calling Eloy up early (the service time issue).
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  #67  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:00 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
It certainly was a major factor. Not only were Eloy and his team threatening to file a grievance, but the sports media was ready to make both Eloy and Vlad, Jr into heroes and run a far-reaching PR campaign that would have made the Sox and Jays look very, very bad.

The major factor, of course, was that Eloy and the team agreed to a team-friendly long-term deal that neutralized one of the major downsides of calling Eloy up early (the service time issue).
I disagree- hit bat was 100% ready for MLB- and since we're in a rebuild year still- you don't keep a bat like that at AAA due to sub par defense.
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  #68  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:15 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
you don't keep a bat like that at AAA due to sub par defense.
You could, if you never want to work in a front office in MLB again.
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  #69  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:27 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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So your contention is that the Sox promoted Eloy solely because his agents were upset that he wasn't promoted last year?
That and that he was clubbing the baseball. They new he was a defesive liability and chose to put him in LF anyway (not very forward thinking).
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  #70  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:34 AM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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That and that he was clubbing the baseball. They new he was a defesive liability and chose to put him in LF anyway (not very forward thinking).
Or they simply said "he can mash at AAA but will likely have some struggles as he adjusts to major league pitching. We'd like to get that out of the way and have him work on his D at the major league level/see what he can do in the field so that next year he's a) ready to hit and b) either improved on D or we know he can't/won't and can DH him when games actually matter."

This isn't a pitcher who can get ruined with an early callup. He's not going to get "ruined" by playing bad D (with the exception being that he shouldn't dive/run into walls/etc). He could improve (I doubt he's not getting personalized instruction on the side), and if he doesn't - it costs games which don't really matter at this point, but sets you up better for next year when they matter more.
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  #71  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:35 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is online now
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I disagree- hit bat was 100% ready for MLB- and since we're in a rebuild year still- you don't keep a bat like that at AAA due to sub par defense.
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
You could, if you never want to work in a front office in MLB again.
Exactly. When a guy who is mostly highly rated due to his hitting (as ALL highly rated position players are) you bring them up when their bat is ready to face Major League pitching because doing otherwise hinders their offensive development.

I still think some of Eloy's issues in LF are due to the game moving a bit too fast for him at present. I think once he gets comfortable he'll settle in as Kittle level defender, but he's trying to do it all right now and that's not a good idea.
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  #72  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:36 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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You could, if you never want to work in a front office in MLB again.
Before Eloy signed the extension, I wanted no part of the White Sox shooting themselves in the foot by having him break camp with the team. Waiting 2 weeks to save an entire year is a no-brainer. I know the Padres did not do this with Tatis, but that is because they had designs on competing for a playoff spot this year and did not want to play an inferior player for about a dozen games.
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  #73  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:41 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is online now
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Before Eloy signed the extension, I wanted no part of the White Sox shooting themselves in the foot by having him break camp with the team. Waiting 2 weeks to save an entire year is a no-brainer. I know the Padres did not do this with Tatis, but that is because they had designs on competing for a playoff spot this year and did not want to play an inferior player for about a dozen games.
Right and that's part of why they signed the extension and I don't think Kittle or others are talking about those two weeks. Heck technically speaking Eloy's bat was MLB ready last summer, but obviously at that time there were service time factors - not that the Sox would publicly admit it.

Still, barring those service time concerns - which are normally just a few weeks, you bring players up when their bats are ready.

Does anyone really think those missing two weeks are the difference in Eloy's defense?
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  #74  
Old 05-16-2019, 11:54 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Does anyone really think those missing two weeks are the difference in Eloy's defense?
I think people are taking "We want him to work on his defense" literally when they hear teams say it. It is just code for "We want to save a year of service time," but it just so happened that Eloy's defense actually qualified as bad enough to need that supposed "extra work." Now that they have seen the bad defense with their own eyes at the major league level, they think the White Sox are bad talent evaluators. That opinion would make sense to people who took the "We want him to work on his defense" comments taken at face value, because it implies that the White Sox consider that "extra work" to be finished and Eloy's defense to be adequate.
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  #75  
Old 05-16-2019, 01:13 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Exactly. When a guy who is mostly highly rated due to his hitting (as ALL highly rated position players are) you bring them up when their bat is ready to face Major League pitching because doing otherwise hinders their offensive development.
Seriously. The Braves have Austin Riley in LF right now. He has been in the minors since 2015 and prior to a week ago, had played ZERO games in professional organized baseball in the OF at all.

Keston Hiura's defense is trash, and he just made an error in his first game, and the Brewers already had Moustakas at 2B.

Preposterous!
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