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  #91  
Old 01-28-2018, 08:17 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by JermaineDye05 View Post
Is there any player in the Sox organization whose stock has absolutely soared more than Alec Hansenís over the last year and a half?
And Hansen still has lots of upside.

Compare Mitch Keller to Alec Hansen. They pitched at the same levels last year, with Hansen maybe moving up a little faster.

Hansen's fastball is rated 70; Keller's, 65.
Hansen's curve is rated 60; Keller's, 55.
Hansen's slider is rated 55; Keller doesn't throw one.
Hansen's change is rated 55, same as Keller's.
Keller's control is rated 60, while Hansen's is 50.

Keller is 1.5 years younger and has better control. Hansen is four inches taller, 40 pounds heavier, has a better fastball and better breaking stuff.

Tell me why Keller deserves a 60 overall (and the #16 prospect rating) when Hansen gets 55 (and the #54).
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  #92  
Old 01-29-2018, 07:41 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica
And Hansen still has lots of upside.

Compare Mitch Keller to Alec Hansen. They pitched at the same levels last year, with Hansen maybe moving up a little faster.

Hansen's fastball is rated 70; Keller's, 65.
Hansen's curve is rated 60; Keller's, 55.
Hansen's slider is rated 55; Keller doesn't throw one.
Hansen's change is rated 55, same as Keller's.
Keller's control is rated 60, while Hansen's is 50.

Keller is 1.5 years younger and has better control. Hansen is four inches taller, 40 pounds heavier, has a better fastball and better breaking stuff.

Tell me why Keller deserves a 60 overall (and the #16 prospect rating) when Hansen gets 55 (and the #54).
Perhaps they think that 60 control of a 65 fastball and 55 curves and changeups is a safer bet to meet expectations in the majors than 50 control of better-quality pitches?
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  #93  
Old 01-29-2018, 10:50 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
And Hansen still has lots of upside.

Compare Mitch Keller to Alec Hansen. They pitched at the same levels last year, with Hansen maybe moving up a little faster.

Hansen's fastball is rated 70; Keller's, 65.
Hansen's curve is rated 60; Keller's, 55.
Hansen's slider is rated 55; Keller doesn't throw one.
Hansen's change is rated 55, same as Keller's.
Keller's control is rated 60, while Hansen's is 50.

Keller is 1.5 years younger and has better control. Hansen is four inches taller, 40 pounds heavier, has a better fastball and better breaking stuff.

Tell me why Keller deserves a 60 overall (and the #16 prospect rating) when Hansen gets 55 (and the #54).
Honestly, its because Keller has major league control AND command, Hansen is a work in progress with his command.

The other truth is, the difference between 55 and 60 is very marginal. The rankings don't mean anything but to the fans. If you polled MLB scouts, you would have some who prefer Keller, some Hansen.

Hansen has a chance to be special with a tremendous FB and breaking stuff, but there is a real concern over his ability to throw it for strikes. He has gotten much better, and another year like last year should shoot him up the charts again, but it will take more time than he has had to prove it.
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  #94  
Old 01-29-2018, 11:08 AM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post

Tell me why Keller deserves a 60 overall (and the #16 prospect rating) when Hansen gets 55 (and the #54).
I feel as if Hansen has been swimming upstream ever since drafted. That disastrous Jr year in college sure kind of put a way too much doubt on these so called experts. He's been nothing but a stud since he was drafted, with huge strides on his command .

Can't wait for Coop to get hands on him at the big league level.
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  #95  
Old 01-29-2018, 11:48 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
I feel as if Hansen has been swimming upstream ever since drafted. That disastrous Jr year in college sure kind of put a way too much doubt on these so called experts. He's been nothing but a stud since he was drafted, with huge strides on his command .

Can't wait for Coop to get hands on him at the big league level.
I think this is a testament to the Sox development team as well. He didn't just fix what was wrong. The Sox had a VERY deliberate plan to get him back on track. There is a good chance that he may be out of baseball if he was drafted by a dozen or so teams right now who wouldn't have fixed his control issues.
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  #96  
Old 01-29-2018, 08:18 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Perhaps they think that 60 control of a 65 fastball and 55 curves and changeups is a safer bet to meet expectations in the majors than 50 control of better-quality pitches?
Well, pitching at basically the same levels last year, Hansen and his 50 control had the better season.

Hansen made 26 starts to Keller's 23; threw 141.1 innings (1 CG) to Keller's 116 (0 CG); allowed more baserunners (1.167 WHIP to 1.00); struck out more batters (12.2/9 instead of 9.0); and pitched to a lower ERA (2.80 vs 3.03).

Keller also hit 10 batters compared to Hansen's 2.
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  #97  
Old 02-05-2018, 01:14 PM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
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Fangraphs T100 is out
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2018-top-100-prospects/
6. Jimenez
20. Kopech
21. Robert
72. Hansen
89. Burdi
91. Collins
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  #98  
Old 02-05-2018, 04:54 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by whitesoxfan1986 View Post
Fangraphs T100 is out
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2018-top-100-prospects/
6. Jimenez
20. Kopech
21. Robert
72. Hansen
89. Burdi
91. Collins
It will never stop stinging my eyes to see Fernando Tatis Jr's name on these lists. I love Hahn and no one's perfect but that one hurts.
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  #99  
Old 02-05-2018, 07:34 PM
shes shes is offline
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6 in the top 100 is not too shabby, especially since you have to imagine Cease, Dunning, Rutherford, and Burger are all just barely outside of it.

It also wouldn't shock me to see three of our guys in the top 5 midseason (Eloy, Kopech, Robert) list. I think they're all going to blaze through the minors, with Eloy and Kopech making it to Chicago sometime this year and Robert sometime in 2019.

Tatis will only sting if he ends up a stud and we end up perpetually being one player away and unable to fill the hole that he would have if Hahn hadn't dealt him.
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  #100  
Old 02-05-2018, 08:24 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by shes View Post
6 in the top 100 is not too shabby, especially since you have to imagine Cease, Dunning, Rutherford, and Burger are all just barely outside of it.

It also wouldn't shock me to see three of our guys in the top 5 midseason (Eloy, Kopech, Robert) list. I think they're all going to blaze through the minors, with Eloy and Kopech making it to Chicago sometime this year and Robert sometime in 2019.

Tatis will only sting if he ends up a stud and we end up perpetually being one player away and unable to fill the hole that he would have if Hahn hadn't dealt him.
As someone who gets ALL of his White Sox minor league info from this forum and the posters who post in it and the links that they share, I'm heartened by the fact that these lists don't all completely agree. As you pointed out there are several guys who must be just outside the top 100. Hopefully in coming months/years they move up the line and enter it consistently themselves, having potentially 12 guys in the top 150 (or something) seems simply incredible to a layman like me.
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  #101  
Old 02-05-2018, 08:59 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
As someone who gets ALL of his White Sox minor league info from this forum and the posters who post in it and the links that they share, I'm heartened by the fact that these lists don't all completely agree. As you pointed out there are several guys who must be just outside the top 100. Hopefully in coming months/years they move up the line and enter it consistently themselves, having potentially 12 guys in the top 150 (or something) seems simply incredible to a layman like me.
It's encouraging. Ahead of where I thought we'd be at this point.

But I figure a good team needs at least 20 good players. If Anderson improves significantly, and Rodon gets healthy, and Moncada, Giolito & Lopez become workhorses, and those 12 top-150 guys all pan out, that's still not enough talent.

That's why we need to cash in Abreu and Avi and others, continue to draft well, develop better, and conserve cash to sign several major free agents (starting in 2019).
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  #102  
Old 02-05-2018, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
As someone who gets ALL of his White Sox minor league info from this forum and the posters who post in it and the links that they share, I'm heartened by the fact that these lists don't all completely agree. As you pointed out there are several guys who must be just outside the top 100. Hopefully in coming months/years they move up the line and enter it consistently themselves, having potentially 12 guys in the top 150 (or something) seems simply incredible to a layman like me.
All the more impressive considering three stud prospects graduated the list last season. We've got the guys mentioned, plus whoever we draft at #4, and then room for talented guys to take a leap forward and become fringe 100 prospects as the season goes on the way Dunning did last year (Adolfo? Sheets? A lot of possibilities).

This is certainly the deepest Sox farm system in my lifetime. Some have been more top loaded (late 80s/early 90s) but top to bottom there are a lot of guys in the system who will likely have some sort of meaningful ML career.
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  #103  
Old 02-06-2018, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
It's encouraging. Ahead of where I thought we'd be at this point.

But I figure a good team needs at least 20 good players. If Anderson improves significantly, and Rodon gets healthy, and Moncada, Giolito & Lopez become workhorses, and those 12 top-150 guys all pan out, that's still not enough talent.

That's why we need to cash in Abreu and Avi and others, continue to draft well, develop better, and conserve cash to sign several major free agents (starting in 2019).
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Originally Posted by shes View Post
All the more impressive considering three stud prospects graduated the list last season. We've got the guys mentioned, plus whoever we draft at #4, and then room for talented guys to take a leap forward and become fringe 100 prospects as the season goes on the way Dunning did last year (Adolfo? Sheets? A lot of possibilities).

This is certainly the deepest Sox farm system in my lifetime. Some have been more top loaded (late 80s/early 90s) but top to bottom there are a lot of guys in the system who will likely have some sort of meaningful ML career.
As Shes points out, we have several young guys already on the team who might be on that list presently including Lopez, Fulmer, Giolito, Moncada and even Anderson is only entering his 3rd season and is still just 24.

For me the really awesome thing is that the three guys at the top of the Sox list on every single on of these rankings are 21, 21 and 20. That's damned awesome and shades of Frank and Robin and Alex Fernandez coming up all at the same time. And to be clear, no I'm not saying these guys are going to be HOF caliber players for certain, but having that much really young high ranked talent just makes me drool.

I'm simply dying to see if Jimenez's bat can really translate to the big league level.
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  #104  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
It will never stop stinging my eyes to see Fernando Tatis Jr's name on these lists. I love Hahn and no one's perfect but that one hurts.
It certainly sucks. But as someone here once said (I can't remember who), that horrible trade might have been what ultimately got the rebuild started. We still might be "going for it" and prepping for yet another 78 win season this year with no hot prospects at the upper levels.
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  #105  
Old 02-06-2018, 10:29 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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https://www.baseballprospectus.com/p...-eloy-jimenez/

BP has us with 8 in the top 100, but also has Tatis top 10.
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