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  #16  
Old 05-05-2019, 11:39 AM
rainbow6 rainbow6 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
It's one game, and I think it looks worse than it did because Ricky left Banuelous out there to rot. Remember the Sox beat the Cardinals in June of 2006 something like 20-5, and the Cardinals went on to win the World Series. Making any kind of grand statements about the overall rebuild based on the outcome of one game is premature.

(By the way, clearly I'm not saying the Sox are going to win the WS this year).

I found it funny that they used Rondon on Friday night in a 6-1 game but didn't use a position player last night in a more lopsided loss.
I have a feeling those statements were not made based on the outcome of one game. My gut tells me they were influenced by a starting staff that sports an ERA of over 9.00 in home games.

And more telling - as others have pointed out - hope is not on the way.
  #17  
Old 05-05-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by rainbow6 View Post
I have a feeling those statements were not made based on the outcome of one game. My gut tells me they were influenced by a starting staff that sports an ERA of over 9.00 in home games.

And more telling - as others have pointed out - hope is not on the way.
Well not, not immediately. It's going to be a rough year. Rodon going down makes it very difficult to think good thoughts about this team this season. He was the rock the starting pitching staff was founded on. With Lopez and Giolito being inexperienced and inconsistent there just isn't much there, there.

Focus on development and hope Lopez and Giolito consistently become more consistent over the next 5 months, then watch for signs the kids are getting better. That's where we are at.
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  #18  
Old 05-05-2019, 11:59 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Well not, not immediately. It's going to be a rough year. Rodon going down makes it very difficult to think good thoughts about this team this season. He was the rock the starting pitching staff was founded on. With Lopez and Giolito being inexperienced and inconsistent there just isn't much there, there.

Focus on development and hope Lopez and Giolito consistently become more consistent over the next 5 months, then watch for signs the kids are getting better. That's where we are at.
And another top three pick!
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  #19  
Old 05-05-2019, 12:05 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Abreu hit the homer.
Sorry about that.
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  #20  
Old 05-05-2019, 12:22 PM
MrX MrX is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
What was up with that? After the fifth or sixth consecutive hit you have to pull a guy.
There were two outs when that disaster started so I donít think they had anyone ready to bring in at that point. I think they were hoping heíd just get the out.
  #21  
Old 05-05-2019, 12:25 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Rodon going down makes it very difficult to think good thoughts about this team this season. He was the rock the starting pitching staff was founded on.
Well that in itself is a problem: counting on someone who has been as undependable as Rodon to be the foundation of the staff.
  #22  
Old 05-05-2019, 12:29 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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I just love how individual game losses are bait for the incessant Hahn hate.

Iím old enough to remember how the 2000 team hit a bunch and the rotation was assembled with bailing wire and spit.

Over the next few years it seemed like Buehrle was the only decent starter as we suffered the David Wells disappointment and the Todd Ritchie disaster. Jon Garland was wildly inconsistent and plenty of Sox fans wanted him run out of town. Bartolo Colon was stolen in a highway robbery, gave us one good season, and was gone. Coop fixed Esteban Loaiza and we flipped him for Jose Contreras, who was no sure thing in mid-2004. We traded surplus prospects for Freddy Garcia and then signed him to an extension, Garland finally clicked, El Duque provided veteran moxie, and we won the freaking World Series.

What happened to the 2005 Sox has no bearing on what will happen with any individual player on the current club. What happened with Sox pitchers between 2000 and 2005 has no bearing on what might happen with Sox pitchers between 2020 and 2025.

But wow, looking back to 2000, or even earlier to the late 90s, our pitching situation sure looked bleak then, too. Our top pitching prospects in 2000-2001 included Jason Stumm, Kris Honel, Jon Rauch, and Matt Ginter.

We have no idea how the present rebuild will progress.

I get that lots of fans have no more patience.

But none of us - NONE - has any freaking clue what the future holds and Iím really tired of the pronouncements of certain doom as unavoidable as death and taxes.
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  #23  
Old 05-05-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Well that in itself is a problem: counting on someone who has been as undependable as Rodon to be the foundation of the staff.
This season that was his role. It was also his year to prove he deserved that role. However in years to come he might have not been the ace of the staff and there are many who feel he was destined to be traded before his arbitration years expired. There are other pitchers who might be better than him down the road including both Kopech and Cease if they hit their ceiling.
  #24  
Old 05-05-2019, 01:20 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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This season that was his role. It was also his year to prove he deserved that role. However in years to come he might have not been the ace of the staff and there are many who feel he was destined to be traded before his arbitration years expired. There are other pitchers who might be better than him down the road including both Kopech and Cease if they hit their ceiling.
It's the "ifs" of this rebuild equation that make everything we say extremely difficult to believe in.
  #25  
Old 05-05-2019, 01:34 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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The past two days have been disturbing. I've been a big backer of Renteria, but he's lost me.

Going back to Friday...When was the last time you saw a position player pitch in a 5-run game? I believe the White Sox have scored the most runs in the seventh, eighth and ninth innings in baseball, and they were coming off some dramatic victories. You just give up? This is the Major Leagues. You don't do that.

If you want to give Renteria the benefit of the doubt Friday, I don't see how you can justify Saturday. It's one thing to want to save the bullpen. It's another to let Banuelos and the team die out there in front of 30,000. Nobody was even going out to talk to him. He didn't deserve that.

I was at Saturday's game. It was an embarrassment all around. The team just fell apart and there was a dark mood in the air where I was sitting in right field. Lots of drunks. Two fights. And of course the guy who ran on the field. We were hosting the defending World Series champions and totally embarrassed ourselves as an organization and city.
  #26  
Old 05-05-2019, 02:13 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
The past two days have been disturbing. I've been a big backer of Renteria, but he's lost me.

Going back to Friday...When was the last time you saw a position player pitch in a 5-run game? I believe the White Sox have scored the most runs in the seventh, eighth and ninth innings in baseball, and they were coming off some dramatic victories. You just give up? This is the Major Leagues. You don't do that.

If you want to give Renteria the benefit of the doubt Friday, I don't see how you can justify Saturday. It's one thing to want to save the bullpen. It's another to let Banuelos and the team die out there in front of 30,000. Nobody was even going out to talk to him. He didn't deserve that.

I was at Saturday's game. It was an embarrassment all around. The team just fell apart and there was a dark mood in the air where I was sitting in right field. Lots of drunks. Two fights. And of course the guy who ran on the field. We were hosting the defending World Series champions and totally embarrassed ourselves as an organization and city.
I agree with you on Renteria but where was the pitching coach in this debacle.

It's pretty hard for the White Sox to be anymore of an embarrassment than they have been in the last decade but I'll defer to your comments as you were there in person.
  #27  
Old 05-05-2019, 02:20 PM
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Sorry about that.
I knew you saw it, just wanted to give Jose due credit since he's been so hot.
  #28  
Old 05-05-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
It's the "ifs" of this rebuild equation that make everything we say extremely difficult to believe in.
It's all if. Very few players in any system are "when" type guys. Doesn't matter anyway, Rodon is hurt, need others to step up and not expecting much this year will save a lot of people a lot of headaches.
  #29  
Old 05-05-2019, 02:55 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
To your first point I agree wholeheartedly. I've been on teams that crushed others and have been on teams steamrolled. Whether by one or one hundred a loss is a loss.

I agree with your second point too. I'll go a little further and say it's long past due for a change at the top. That means Coop. The other avenue I want to travel is the one where pitchers these days look to be very fragile. This new philosophy or physical regimen has to be looked at because the amount of injuries is unacceptable.

The game is in a pathetic state right now.
It was refreshing to see Hendricks even though a Cub have an 81 pitch complete game the other day but yes today's starting pitchers are fragile and being babied yet there seems to be more of them hurting their arms and landing on the IL or even having surgery.

Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 05-05-2019 at 03:08 PM.
  #30  
Old 05-05-2019, 06:02 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Renteria's strategy leaves a lot to be desired, but he's about 8th on the list behind JR, KW, RH, Hostetler, Getz, Cooper and Haber.
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