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  #1  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:36 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Default Best Sox Front Office move of the 2010s.

I'm borrowing this idea from another Sox website. In light of the Grandal signing, the question is where the move ranks among all the other front office moves in the 2010s. Any move can be considered, whether it be a free agent signing, international signing, waiver claim, a trade, or a draft pick.

The only restriction is that you cannot use hindsight. In other words, rate each move only on its merits at the time of the transaction.

I'll start off with my list.

1) Santiago for Eaton/Eaton for Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning. I’m combining these two because Hahn eventually turned Santiago in Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning. Even on Santiago’s best day, he was not worth the potential upside of Eaton, let alone Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning.

2) Q for Eloy and Cease. I was very surprised at the time, and I still wonder why the Cubs felt compelled to make this move.

3) Signing Abreu. ‘Nuff said.

4) Signing Robert. Has the potential of the biggest payoff, IMO.

5) Signing Grandal. The Sox have been the highest bidder before in the 2010s (Dunn, Abreu, and Robert) and since (Wheeler), so that doesn’t factor in, IMO. This move is significant for checking all boxes without having to spend anything more than money.

6) Sale for Yoan, Kopech, and Basabe. Only this far down the list because Sale was pitching like a future HOFer at the time. As good as Yoan and Kopech have been so far, we might have only scratched the surface at this point.
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:48 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Top 5:

1) Jose Quintana trade to the Cubs

2) Adam Eaton trade to the Nats

3) Chris Sale trade to the Red Sox

4) Signing Luis Robert for well over the allotted bonus pool money

5) Drafting Tim Anderson despite his minimal experience
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2019, 03:46 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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1. Trading Hector Santiago for Adam Eaton.
2. Trading Adam Eaton for Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning
3. Trading Q for Cease, Jiminez, et al
4. Claiming Q off of Waivers from the NYY.
5. Trading Peavy for Avi, Montas et al
6. Claiming Omar Narvaez from Tampa Bay in the minor league Rule 5 in 2013
7. Trading Gordon Beckham for Yency Almonte
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  #4  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:11 PM
BRDSR BRDSR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
1. Trading Hector Santiago for Adam Eaton.
2. Trading Adam Eaton for Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning
3. Trading Q for Cease, Jiminez, et al
4. Claiming Q off of Waivers from the NYY.
5. Trading Peavy for Avi, Montas et al
6. Claiming Omar Narvaez from Tampa Bay in the minor league Rule 5 in 2013
7. Trading Gordon Beckham for Yency Almonte
No way the Grandal signing isnít in the Top 5. I think folks are ignoring the rule about evaluating the move at the time of the transaction.

Heís a proven elite position player at a premium position who resolved all sorts of issues with our lineup and allows us to comfortably take a year to evaluate RF, should that prove wise, without significantly sacrificing our expectations for 2020.

Not a single trade made this decade was better AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE than signing Grandal.
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  #5  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:15 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRDSR View Post
No way the Grandal signing isnít in the Top 5. I think folks are ignoring the rule about evaluating the move at the time of the transaction.

Heís a proven elite position player at a premium position who resolved all sorts of issues with our lineup and allows us to comfortably take a year to evaluate RF, should that prove wise, without significantly sacrificing our expectations for 2020.

Not a single trade made this decade was better AT THE TIME OF THE TRADE than signing Grandal.
Paying a reasonable free agent salary for a productive player is nowhere near prying loose an All Star starter for a good-but-not-great corner outfielder or a top-5 overall prospect for a good-but-not-great starter.
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:19 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Grandal is not a proven elite talent. People are acting like we got an in his prime Buster Posey. This is a 3 war catcher with a couple all star appearances and a couple league leads in passes balls. He is a good player, but good lord, nowhere near elite at all, heís barely an all star
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:20 PM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
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I think the best moves the Sox made were probably not trades or FA signings, but the contracts they negotiated with Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Anderson and Jimenez.
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:34 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Quote:
Grandal is not a proven elite talent. People are acting like we got an in his prime Buster Posey. This is a 3 war catcher with a couple all star appearances and a couple league leads in passes balls. He is a good player, but good lord, nowhere near elite at all, he’s barely an all star


How many 3 WAR catchers are there in MLB at any one time? I wonder what catcher has the highest WAR in MLB over the past 5 seasons according to Fangraphs?


https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...date=&enddate=


When you at the complete package, Grandal is an ELITE catcher. I can't see how anyone can dispute that. To say he's "barely an all star" is ludicrous.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:36 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Per the OP, you cannot use hindsight.

That would rule out drafting Anderson, right? And likewise acquiring Quintana and Narvaez. They were nobodies.

How about drafting Sale? I certainly didn't think he was going to become one of our all-time best pitchers, but he seemed like a great pick. On the other hand, draft picks (especially pitchers) are so volatile.

I was legitimately excited about drafting Rodon because he had a chance of going #1 and he fell to us. I was legitimately excited about drafting Madrigal and Vaughn.

Signing Abreu and Robert was an awful lot of money for players without US track records. I liked that they gambled, though.

The Sale deal was divisive because (1) Sale was clearly going to bring a championship to Boston, and (2) many didn't think we got a good enough return.

On the other hand, I was floored by the Eaton and Quintana deals. Loved them.

It was a minor deal, but Jake Peter for Soria and Avilan was obviously a good trade at the time.

And trading Alex Call for Yonder Alonso meant that we were certain to sign Machado, so there's that.

I remember being moderately enthusiastic about acquiring Eaton for Santiago, about dealing away Peavy, and about getting Davidson for Reed. I was probably even enthusiatic about trading for Samardzija. D'oh!

Some of the best decisions were moving on from Ozzie and Robin, and from so many wretched players. Unfortunately the front office deserves no credit because they brought all those losers in, and hung on to them for way too long.

Anyway, Grandal is a good signing, but if I tried to put things in order he'd probably come in around fifth.

Last edited by A. Cavatica; 12-06-2019 at 10:42 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:51 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
How many 3 WAR catchers are there in MLB at any one time? I wonder what catcher has the highest WAR in MLB over the past 5 seasons according to Fangraphs?


https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...date=&enddate=


When you at the complete package, Grandal is an ELITE catcher. I can't see how anyone can dispute that. To say he's "barely an all star" is ludicrous.
He was 8th in C war last year based on baseball reference WAR, he has been an all-star twice in 8 years. I guess we can just agree to disagree on what qualifies as barely an all-star, to me, a guy who has been an all-star for about 25% of his career qualifies.
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  #11  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:28 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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So no one remembers that they signed a FA backup catcher that turned out to be an All-Star?
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  #12  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:02 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRDSR View Post
No way the Grandal signing isn’t in the Top 5. I think folks are ignoring the rule about evaluating the move at the time of the transaction.

He’s a proven elite position player at a premium position who resolved all sorts of issues with our lineup and allows us to comfortably take a year to evaluate RF, should that prove wise, without significantly sacrificing our expectations for 2020.
Exactly - I'm looking at it in context. Also, I'm basing this on a value perspective (received v. given up), not necessarily on an impact perspective.
The Sox had a 2 WAR catcher last year and going forward as well as a top prospect at that position, plus Mercedes (I know I'm alone in liking him); they had Narvaez until trading him. Point being they've actually been pretty good at catching, albeit under the radar.
In contrast, at 2B they have maybe a replacement player until a top prospect is ready. Nothing in RF. And the pitching staff is thin as a board - they need 2 starters and 2 high end relievers.
To me it wasn't the priority it was to others.
I'm not dissing the signing; it was a good move. Just not a top move.

Last edited by Tragg; 12-07-2019 at 09:11 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:18 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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I’ll go ahead and finish my top 10 - give the feel-good to the FO.
8. Zack Stewart and Brent Lilibridge for Kevin Youkalis. The Sox were contenders in 2012, while below replacement at 3B. Youkalis was on his last legs but played hard and produced pretty well. The Sox gave up nothing (nothing on paper; nothing as it turned out).
9. Yency Almonte for Tommy Kahnle
10. Alex Rios for Leury Garcia (just couldn’t think of another positive trade)

Top FA Signings:
1. Jose Abreu (not a FA; but an older veteran signee; if Robert should be included, he'd be #2)
2. James McCann
3. Grandal
4. Anthony Swarzak
5. David Robertson
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  #14  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:43 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
The Sox were contenders in 2012, while below replacement at 3B. Youkalis was on his last legs but played hard and produced pretty well. The Sox gave up nothing (nothing on paper; nothing as it turned out).
9. Yency Almonte for Tommy Kahnle
10. Alex Rios for Leury Garcia (just couldnít think of another positive trade)

Top FA Signings:
1. Jose Abreu (not a FA; but an older veteran signee; if Robert should be included, he'd be #2)
2. James McCann
3. Grandal
4. Anthony Swarzak
5. David Robertson
Youkilis was a good trade at the time. In hindsight, the Sox were not anywhere close to contention, and the trade was irrelevant.

If you thought, at the time, that any of Kahnle or Garcia or Swarzak would ever be useful to the Sox then you have a crystal ball.
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  #15  
Old 12-07-2019, 09:45 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
So no one remembers that they signed a FA backup catcher that turned out to be an All-Star?
At the time, I assumed McCann would struggle to hit and be no better than any of the other retread catchers weíve brought in. Remember, you arenít supposed to use hindsight.
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