White Sox Interactive Forums
What's The Score?

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > What's The Score?
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #241  
Old 12-06-2019, 12:53 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is online now
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 19,722
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
He definitely walks too many.
Bum had horrendous road splits last year; and his home park is a definitive pitcher's park. And he's another one who has lost a lot on his fastball.
There just aren't a lot of good options.

If the Sox can't beat the Phillies and Padres, they aren't beating the Yankees, nationals and Angels.
I’ve seen those split stats too, and it is concerning, but I think he’s a guy who could fulfill his contract reasonably well unless his demands now get out of control.

As for the velocity, he really hasn’t crashed the last four seasons at all and he’s only an MPH off his average FB overall his entire career. His peak is down just under two from his prime and less than one over the last four years. Look through his numbers and you’ll see he’s not a guy with greatly diminished stuff.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.p.../2019&s_type=2
__________________
People are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling
  #242  
Old 12-06-2019, 04:51 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Suburbs
Posts: 5,332
Default

Mohoney, you're thinking about this the wrong way. You sign Rendon and move him to 2B. You then have the best 2B in baseball and all the through the roof quant values propeller-heads crave.

Think about those runs saved above average at the keystone with Rendon instead of Moncada. Moncada does nothing but get better at 3B.

The move is obvious.
__________________
“There were a few hard rules, but everybody was unique, and he understood that. George’s great strength was he didn’t overcoach. There’s no place for panic on the mound.” - Jim Palmer on George Bamberger “Arms and the man,” Sports Illustrated, April 19, 2004

Last edited by Grzegorz; 12-06-2019 at 05:09 AM.
  #243  
Old 12-06-2019, 05:04 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Suburbs
Posts: 5,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
Seriously?
Yes seriously. The Phillies have won nothing. The Padres have won nothing. Titles count. They are achieved the layers on the field and not by the dollars in the pockets of players off the field.

Last edited by Grzegorz; 12-06-2019 at 05:11 AM.
  #244  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:14 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 1,347
Default

Doolittle from ESPN put together an article of trades they'd like to see. One of them is Betts to the Sox for Basabe, Dunning, and Lopez. In the writeup he suggests that the Sox should be going all in this offseason - including pursuing Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...rades-want-see
  #245  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:19 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,962
Default

This reported willingness by the Mets to package good players with bad money is intriguing. If the Mets are willing to trade Dom Smith for Jed Lowrie’s $12 million, maybe they would be willing to do Smith, #12 overall pick Brett Baty, and a minor league pitcher for Lowrie and Yoenis Céspedes. Then Smith (or possibly Collins, depending on value) can be traded in another trade.

If there is no big-name pitcher coming here via free agency, then be realistic about it and put that money to another use.

Lowrie and Céspedes are a combined $41.5 for 2020, then they are free agents in 2021. Moreover, if Céspedes misses at least 60 days, somewhere between 60-70% of his salary is recouped by insurance. However, all of his $29.5 still counts for luxury tax purposes.

If Céspedes comes back full force, then he’s an expensive 1-year piece who makes a big difference in the lineup. if he doesn’t, then the team is only out $10-12 instead of the full $29.5. Lowrie is just roster filler. If anybody wants to take a gamble on him at pennies on the dollar and send back a non-prospect, that’s fine. If he rides the bench here, that’s also fine.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and let’s fight tomorrow.
  #246  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:22 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,962
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Mohoney, you're thinking about this the wrong way. You sign Rendon and move him to 2B. You then have the best 2B in baseball and all the through the roof quant values propeller-heads crave.

Think about those runs saved above average at the keystone with Rendon instead of Moncada. Moncada does nothing but get better at 3B.

The move is obvious.
If Rendon is capable of playing the position better than Moncada, then by all means play him there.
  #247  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:23 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Antioch, IL
Posts: 7,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Sure it is.

Let’s say his defense at 2B is the same -5 runs that it was in 2018. He was +30 runs with the bat last year, which would have led all major league 2B had Moncada played that position instead of 3B. Even subtracting those 5 runs and dropping him to 25 runs, that still would have led all major league 2B.

And then you get to add ANTHONY RENDON! Go ahead and compare Rendon’s numbers to Yolmer’s recently departed numbers. None of those OF options would come close to changing the dynamic of this lineup as much as Rendon would.

If Jose Abreu’s -4 runs is playable at 1B, then Yoan Moncada’s -5 runs is playable at 2B, considering that Moncada’s bat is obscenely more valuable at 2B than Abreu’s is at 1B.
I just think Moncada is pretty bad at 2nd base- not Micah Johnson bad- but in the neighborhood- and defense up the middle matters- especially with Anderson at SS.
__________________
TomBradley72
http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/334c0314
"When you’re going good, you’re not that ****ing good,but when you’re going bad, you’re not that bad. That’s ****ing Satchel Paige there and that’s wisdom.” - Don Cooper, April-2019
  #248  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:26 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,962
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
Doolittle from ESPN put together an article of trades they'd like to see. One of them is Betts to the Sox for Basabe, Dunning, and Lopez. In the writeup he suggests that the Sox should be going all in this offseason - including pursuing Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...rades-want-see
Boston isn’t trading Betts for that package. 2 broken prospects and a guy on the verge of being moved out of the rotation does not get you a top-5 talent, even if it is only for a single year.
  #249  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:33 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,962
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I just think Moncada is pretty bad at 2nd base- not Micah Johnson bad- but in the neighborhood- and defense up the middle matters- especially with Anderson at SS.
I never said defense didn’t matter. I said Moncada’s .900 OPS more than makes up for that deficiency, and Rendon’s 1.000 OPS also helps to soothe the pain.

Shaky defense up the middle is a small price to pay for that type of game-changing productivity in the lineup.
  #250  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:45 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Antioch, IL
Posts: 7,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
I never said defense didn’t matter. I said Moncada’s .900 OPS more than makes up for that deficiency, and Rendon’s 1.000 OPS also helps to soothe the pain.

Shaky defense up the middle is a small price to pay for that type of game-changing productivity in the lineup.
I didn't say you said that

I think that middle infield defense has the risk of being the equivalent of Alan Bannister and Jorge Orta - and possibly getting into Moncada's head and impacting his offense- it sure would produce some incredible offense- Id rather see them focus the money/energy on solving our real problems- RF and starting pitching.
  #251  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:00 AM
blurry blurry is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,101
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
Doolittle from ESPN put together an article of trades they'd like to see. One of them is Betts to the Sox for Basabe, Dunning, and Lopez. In the writeup he suggests that the Sox should be going all in this offseason - including pursuing Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...rades-want-see
No way would Boston ever make that trade but if they offered it, I'd take it in a heartbeart. Sure it's only for 1 season of Mookie Betts but you have to figure it would help when he hits FA.
  #252  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:04 AM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,614
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blurry View Post
No way would Boston ever make that trade but if they offered it, I'd take it in a heartbeart. Sure it's only for 1 season of Mookie Betts but you have to figure it would help when he hits FA.
Doing that deal for Mookie only makes sense if they get Cole/Strasburg too. If not, it's just throwing away 2 controllable arms with decent upside for one chance to possibly make the playoffs and no chance really of a WS.

Regardless, not going to happen anyways.
  #253  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:07 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,962
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I didn't say you said that

I think that middle infield defense has the risk of being the equivalent of Alan Bannister and Jorge Orta - and possibly getting into Moncada's head and impacting his offense- it sure would produce some incredible offense- Id rather see them focus the money/energy on solving our real problems- RF and starting pitching.
The only reason I brought up Rendon was because none of the RF options would have that type of positive impact on the lineup.

I want nothing at all to do with Marcell Ozuna, Nick Castellanos is more of a DH than an OF, and most of the trade options are 1-year rentals who shouldn’t preclude a Rendon signing anyway.

If they were willing to move Moncada back to 2B to accommodate Manny Machado at 3B, then that same willingness should be extended to accommodate Rendon.

Is starting pitching a higher priority? Of course. Unfortunately, Wheeler is a Phillie now; and it looks like the Yankees, Dodgers, and Angels are all competing for Cole and Strasburg. My guess is that the Yankees land Cole, the Angels land Strasburg, and the Dodgers sign Bumgarner after missing out on both the big fish. At that point, all you’re left with is Ryu and back-end arms. At that point, may as well go hard after Rendon with the Machado money.
  #254  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:19 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,962
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Doing that deal for Mookie only makes sense if they get Cole/Strasburg too. If not, it's just throwing away 2 controllable arms with decent upside for one chance to possibly make the playoffs and no chance really of a WS.

Regardless, not going to happen anyways.
Doing that deal for Mookie would be an absolute slam dunk in our favor, even if you do it specifically to flip Mookie at the trade deadline.
  #255  
Old 12-06-2019, 11:21 AM
asindc asindc is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Washington, DC area
Posts: 9,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
Doolittle from ESPN put together an article of trades they'd like to see. One of them is Betts to the Sox for Basabe, Dunning, and Lopez. In the writeup he suggests that the Sox should be going all in this offseason - including pursuing Cole, Strasburg, and Rendon.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...rades-want-see
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Boston isn’t trading Betts for that package. 2 broken prospects and a guy on the verge of being moved out of the rotation does not get you a top-5 talent, even if it is only for a single year.
No, they are not. If they do, the Sox should drop everything and do this immediately.
__________________
"I have the ultimate respect for White Sox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Red Sox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country." Jim Caple, ESPN (January 12, 2011)


"We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the (bleeding) obvious is the first duty of intelligent men."George Orwell
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.