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  #151  
Old 10-11-2019, 07:52 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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I'm a Madrigal fan, but even I'm not convinced his skill set is a given to translate to this level. He's not Eloy. He's not Luis Robert. He's not that level of overwhelming talent. He's got enough high level skill that I'm confident he can at least be a league average player. But it's also entirely likely he winds up a .270 slap hitter with little to no power at this level. We'll know more soon.
  #152  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:06 PM
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I'm a Madrigal fan, but even I'm not convinced his skill set is a given to translate to this level. He's not Eloy. He's not Luis Robert. He's not that level of overwhelming talent. He's got enough high level skill that I'm confident he can at least be a league average player. But it's also entirely likely he winds up a .270 slap hitter with little to no power at this level. We'll know more soon.
I got an idea, lets give him a chance to find out...
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  #153  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:07 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Does any team bat their best hitter in the lead off spot?
Boston, the Yankees, Houston before Springer got hurt and Alvarez came up, it happens. #2 should be your best hitter, leadoff should be next-best, #4 next. #3 and #5 are roughly the same, with #5 being slightly more important because of those 2-out, nobody on at-bats in the 1st inning from the #3 guy.

League average OPS was .780 out of the leadoff spot. If Madrigal slugs under .400, which I think is a very real possibility, his OBP needs to be over .380 just to provide average leadoff production.
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  #154  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:08 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I got an idea, lets give him a chance to find out...
Or if weíre serious about starting this process in 2020 instead of 2021, sell high on a top-50 value prospect and not have to worry about the risk...
  #155  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:17 PM
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Or if weíre serious about starting this process in 2020 instead of 2021, sell high on a top-50 value prospect and not have to worry about the risk...
If the Sox are going to trade ANYONE from the close to ready high potential players in the minors, Madrigal would be my top choice. Toss in Collins and Stiever and see what we can get back, but It has to absolutely break the bank for that to happen. I mean they better get back a Sale clone.

Could take a flyer on Gennet as a potentially cheap FA to fill 2B. See if he can bounce back.
  #156  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:17 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Boston, the Yankees, Houston before Springer got hurt and Alvarez came up, it happens. #2 should be your best hitter, leadoff should be next-best, #4 next. #3 and #5 are roughly the same, with #5 being slightly more important because of those 2-out, nobody on at-bats in the 1st inning from the #3 guy.

League average OPS was .780 out of the leadoff spot. If Madrigal slugs under .400, which I think is a very real possibility, his OBP needs to be over .380 just to provide average leadoff production.

If Madrigal doesn't slug but gets on base at a .350 clip at leadoff with his speed, I think that'll be fine.
  #157  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:18 PM
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Leury and Yolmer haven't a minuscule of the talent he has at the dish. Not even close. Those comparisons completely ruin any point you may have. Neither control the zone or bat anything close to Nick.

Too much evaluation is done with paper numbers when it's just a **** way to compare players for the most part.
For a guy who controls the zone as well as you say he does, he doesnít exactly punish a lot of mistakes or draw a lot of walks.

A lot of guys have oodles of talent that never leads to production in the big leagues. Reynaldo Lopez throws 98 mph, yet he canít seem to use it to his advantage and strike out enough hitters.
  #158  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Boston, the Yankees, Houston before Springer got hurt and Alvarez came up, it happens. #2 should be your best hitter, leadoff should be next-best, #4 next. #3 and #5 are roughly the same, with #5 being slightly more important because of those 2-out, nobody on at-bats in the 1st inning from the #3 guy.

League average OPS was .780 out of the leadoff spot. If Madrigal slugs under .400, which I think is a very real possibility, his OBP needs to be over .380 just to provide average leadoff production.
So no. Leadoff hitters are guaranteed to get more ABs if playing the same # of full time games as everyone else in the lineup. So lineup construction is not as simple as giving more ABs to your best hitters, otherwise teams would just line them up best hitter, then 2nd best, then 3rd best, etc. If you are concerned about Madrigal getting more ABs than Moncada, for instance, let’s see what both players do going forward. You actually might want Madrigal hitting leadoff with a .335 BA and .480 OBP, rather than Moncada with a .950 OPS because Madrigal will give Moncada and others more RBI opportunities than Moncada will.
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Last edited by asindc; 10-11-2019 at 09:43 PM. Reason: .950 OPS, not .950 OBP!
  #159  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
So no. Leadoff hitters are guaranteed to get more ABs if playing the same # of full time games as everyone else in the lineup. So lineup construction is not as simple as giving more ABs to your best hitters, otherwise teams would just line them up best hitter, then 2nd best, then 3rd best, etc. If you are concerned about Madrigal getting more ABs than Moncada, for instance, letís see what both players do going forward. You actually might want Madrigal hitting leadoff with a .335 BA and .480 OBP, rather than Moncada with a .950 OBP because Madrigal will give Moncada and others more RBI opportunities than Moncada will.
If Madrigal can post a .480 OBP I don't care what he slugs. let him leadoff...
  #160  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:23 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
If Madrigal doesn't slug but gets on base at a .350 clip at leadoff with his speed, I think that'll be fine.
So, basically, Yolmer with about 30-40 extra OBP points...

Thatís a bottom-order hitter, not a top-order hitter.
  #161  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
If Madrigal can post a .480 OBP I don't care what he slugs. let him leadoff...
Over Moncadaís .950 OBP? Hell no!
  #162  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:25 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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I'm more of the "leadoff hitters are fast and get on base" mold.
  #163  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
So no. Leadoff hitters are guaranteed to get more ABs if playing the same # of full time games as everyone else in the lineup. So lineup construction is not as simple as giving more ABs to your best hitters, otherwise teams would just line them up best hitter, then 2nd best, then 3rd best, etc. If you are concerned about Madrigal getting more ABs than Moncada, for instance, letís see what both players do going forward. You actually might want Madrigal hitting leadoff with a .335 BA and .480 OBP, rather than Moncada with a .950 OBP because Madrigal will give Moncada and others more RBI opportunities than Moncada will.
Each lineup spot has about 2.5% more plate appearances than the one that follows it.

Yes, Abreu led our team in plate appearances, but only because management has this stupid inclination to play him every day, even when heís mired in a slump or banged-up.

You know who was 2nd? Leury Garcia.
  #164  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:58 PM
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Over Moncadaís .950 OBP? Hell no!
I assumed that was a typo and he meant .950 OPS.
  #165  
Old 10-11-2019, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Each lineup spot has about 2.5% more plate appearances than the one that follows it.

Yes, Abreu led our team in plate appearances, but only because management has this stupid inclination to play him every day, even when heís mired in a slump or banged-up.

You know who was 2nd? Leury Garcia.
Injuries took playing time from Anderson, Eloy and Moncada though. If they hadn't missed a month or more each they'd have been right there.
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