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  #31  
Old 10-18-2018, 11:50 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Have you taken the CTA to Naperville?
Have you driven on the Eisenhower from the City to get to the western suburbs by 6:00 or so when you get done at the office at 5:00?

It may be convenient to those of you in the western burbs, but to everyone else, it is 4 hours of commuting before and after the game combined. Metra only runs to and from downtown. At 10:00 when the game is over, the Metra is every other hour. In other words, Metra is useless. So much for any meaningful attendance, regardless of the won/loss record, especially on a "school night."

There's a reason why the Cubs and Sox, of the four major teams in Chicago, are the furthest from downtown. You need as many transportation options as possible to bring in 25,000+ on 81 dates.
Takes me almost 2 hrs to get to a weeknight game by car now, so the problem exists anywhere in the Chicago area. Get home in less than an hour so I won't pretend travel at 10 PM + is a problem. As far as coverage goes, assigned reporters will find a way to get there on time. Somehow the players do.
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  #32  
Old 10-19-2018, 08:29 AM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
Takes me almost 2 hrs to get to a weeknight game by car now, so the problem exists anywhere in the Chicago area. Get home in less than an hour so I won't pretend travel at 10 PM + is a problem. As far as coverage goes, assigned reporters will find a way to get there on time. Somehow the players do.
It might be a problem now for some, but a move anywhere further out would make it a problem for everyone. Even this year when they were averaging about 10K a game, youíd still see crowds of people streaming out of the red line and rock island Metra stops in the hour before first pitch. Should the team become competitive in the next couple years, that crowd will increase exponentially. Thatís a huge loss out in the suburbs.

And for whomever asked if millennials moving into the city are using their disposable income on baseball games: I am, because I live 15 minutes away from the ballpark and tickets are $7, but as long as a baseball game remains a $100+ outing for decent tickets, food, parking, etc, the answer is no, and that has more to do with overall attendance issues than any change in the style of play. And removing public transportation as an option by leaving the city would only hurt, not help. This isnít a city like Atlanta or LA, where everyoneís driving anyway. For an example in another sport (voodoo, you may be able to chime in on this), the 49ers move an hour out into the outer suburbs has been pretty disastrous from an attendance standpoint, hasnít it? And thatís hard to do with a football team.
  #33  
Old 10-19-2018, 09:04 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Given the geography, the mean population center is probably somewhere in the western suburbs, but that doesnít necessarily translate into more attendance if you put a new stadium there.

If and when itís time for a new stadium, it makes logical sense for it to be located closest to the greatest number of transportation links that connect to the largest and densest concentrations of population. In other words: downtown or close to it, as numerous highways and all the rail lines converge there.

The current location is pretty accessible to the most concentrated areas of Sox fans, so itís not the worst outcome for them to continue playing at 35th and Shields.

In addition, Metra reportedly has long desired to run its Southwest Service trains into LaSalle Street (rather than Union Station); this (coupled with timely trains on game days/nights) would presumably allow Metra Southwest Service trains to stop at the 35th Street station and thus provide a new option for fans from stops from Wrightwood to Manhattan easily to attend games, just as fans along the Rock Island line currently enjoy.
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  #34  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:34 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by mzh View Post
It might be a problem now for some, but a move anywhere further out would make it a problem for everyone. Even this year when they were averaging about 10K a game, youíd still see crowds of people streaming out of the red line and rock island Metra stops in the hour before first pitch. Should the team become competitive in the next couple years, that crowd will increase exponentially. Thatís a huge loss out in the suburbs.

And for whomever asked if millennials moving into the city are using their disposable income on baseball games: I am, because I live 15 minutes away from the ballpark and tickets are $7, but as long as a baseball game remains a $100+ outing for decent tickets, food, parking, etc, the answer is no, and that has more to do with overall attendance issues than any change in the style of play. And removing public transportation as an option by leaving the city would only hurt, not help. This isnít a city like Atlanta or LA, where everyoneís driving anyway. For an example in another sport (voodoo, you may be able to chime in on this), the 49ers move an hour out into the outer suburbs has been pretty disastrous from an attendance standpoint, hasnít it? And thatís hard to do with a football team.
Pretty sure the 49ers are fine on tickets sold but theyíve sucked so badly the last several years tickets are cheap on StubHub and there are lots of open seats at the games.

If they end up losing their base Iím sure folks in the South Bay will be perfectly happy to buy those seats. Tons of money in Silicon Valley. San Jose is actually the largest city population wise in the Bay Area and thereís actually solid public transportation that takes you right to the stadium. Though itís tougher to take public transportation from the North Bay to San Jose at present.

But as others have said the NFL is a different animal and only needs to sellout 8-10 home games a year, so itís really not comparable.
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  #35  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:58 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
My opinion regarding baseball fandom....

People donít stop rooting for their team. They may go to fewer games or watch fewer hours on tv, but they donít quit the team. This is especially true in a two-team town. If anything, Sox fans are dormant right now.

Regarding the Cubs, it is pessimistic to think they are going to ride a wave of success for the next 15 years. Everything in baseball is cyclical.

To that point, I also think it is one dimensional to translate Cubs success to lack of White Sox fans. In fact, that success seems to reinforce Sox fandom and possibly even create new fans. I know a lot of people already sick of that show up there.

But, all that said, I find it highly suspect that this thread was created right after we roadhoused the other garbage last week. The Sox arenít going anywhere.
I want to respond to this because I have been thinking about it for a couple of days now. I think to some extent you're right, people don't quit their team though they may stop paying attention actively. I think in that regard, Sox fans are in a similar position to what Blackhawks fans were experiencing prior to Rocky Wirtz taking over.

But I think this really only applies to die-hard White Sox fans. The Cubs are much more successful at getting the attention of casual fans and the problem is those casual fans (or their kids) can soon become die-hards. This has been a problem for several generations now dating back to before Jerry Reinsdorf bought the team. My concern is if the Cubs can keep adding to their die-hard fanbase from the casual fan "pool," it could reach a sort of critical mass situation.

As far as how long the Cubs can sustain their success, I have no idea. Yea, it probably won't be 15 years, but you know, the Yankees and Red Sox have had long windows of success based on locking up their homegrown talent.

Now, if the White Sox rebuild is successful and they can make the playoffs several times in the 2020s, this problem can sort of fix itself.
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  #36  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:30 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Only pessimistic Sox fans on WSI ever talk about this. No credible media source has the White Sox even considering a move.
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  #37  
Old 10-19-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mzh View Post
Even this year when they were averaging about 10K a game, youíd still see crowds of people streaming out of the red line and rock island Metra stops in the hour before first pitch.

1,608,817 / 81 = 19,862. So, almost twice 10K.
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2018 Attendance Tracker: 8 - 8


Apr 5 L
Apr 10 L
May 18 L
May 22 W
Jun 1 W
Jun 22 L W
Jul 2 L @ CIN
Jul 3 W @ CIN
Jul 11 W
Jul 28 W
Aug 17 W
Sep 8 L
Sep 22 L
Sep 23 L
Sep 25 W

Next Game 2019 ?
  #38  
Old 10-19-2018, 03:51 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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IMHO the #1 way to remove this line of thinking once and for all would be new ownership of the franchise- a new owner who is willing to play "offense" with the team, both on the product on the field as well as the operation and marketing, etc. off the field.

Einhorn and Reinsdorf seemed to have this mindset from 1981-85 with a few moves I didn't like (the move to Sportsvision/OnTV, the new uniforms that ignored 80 years of history are the main 2 for me), but then they let Larussa and Hemond go, and after a year of Harrelson in 1986, they went full, low cost rebuild from 1987-1989, and threatened to move to Florida and then moved into a generic stale ballpark which steamrolled the first 90 years of the franchise- and openly conceding the Chicago market to the Cubs off the field, and conceding through a "small market" mindset to at least half of the American League.

Please bring in new ownership who will see the incredible potential for this franchise if they stop the mindset of a 2nd tier organization, demand excellence, and begin to play offense again. Any consideration of moving this franchise is a complete indictment an ownership group that could allow that to happen in such an incredible baseball market like Chicago.
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  #39  
Old 10-19-2018, 04:45 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
IMHO the #1 way to remove this line of thinking once and for all would be new ownership of the franchise- a new owner who is willing to play "offense" with the team, both on the product on the field as well as the operation and marketing, etc. off the field.

Einhorn and Reinsdorf seemed to have this mindset from 1981-85 with a few moves I didn't like (the move to Sportsvision/OnTV, the new uniforms that ignored 80 years of history are the main 2 for me), but then they let Larussa and Hemond go, and after a year of Harrelson in 1986, they went full, low cost rebuild from 1987-1989, and threatened to move to Florida and then moved into a generic stale ballpark which steamrolled the first 90 years of the franchise- and openly conceding the Chicago market to the Cubs off the field, and conceding through a "small market" mindset to at least half of the American League.

Please bring in new ownership who will see the incredible potential for this franchise if they stop the mindset of a 2nd tier organization, demand excellence, and begin to play offense again. Any consideration of moving this franchise is a complete indictment an ownership group that could allow that to happen in such an incredible baseball market like Chicago.
Accurate historically and very well said.
  #40  
Old 10-19-2018, 04:46 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by FielderJones View Post
1,608,817 / 81 = 19,862. So, almost twice 10K.
Wow, there you go. I think that speaks for itself. Those arenít great by any means but if those are the numbers for a team that hasnít sniffed the playoffs for 10 years and has made a habit of touching 100 losses, I donít see any reason why we wouldnít expect more than solid attendance and support when they start winning again. Seems to be a lot of paranoia.
  #41  
Old 10-19-2018, 04:56 PM
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Accurate historically and very well said.

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But you can't just snap your fingers and "bring in new ownership" as TomBradley advocates. The Sox aren't a public corporation and we aren't shareholders. Why is this so hard to grasp? We don't get a vote (unless you consider boycotting the Sox both a "vote" and a vote that matters).
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  #42  
Old 10-19-2018, 05:40 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But you can't just snap your fingers and "bring in new ownership" as TomBradley advocates. The Sox aren't a public corporation and we aren't shareholders. Why is this so hard to grasp? We don't get a vote (unless you consider boycotting the Sox both a "vote" and a vote that matters).

...and there is still the question about financing a new stadium.
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  #43  
Old 10-19-2018, 06:58 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But you can't just snap your fingers and "bring in new ownership" as TomBradley advocates. The Sox aren't a public corporation and we aren't shareholders. Why is this so hard to grasp? We don't get a vote (unless you consider boycotting the Sox both a "vote" and a vote that matters).
Time marches on, time waits for no man. Sooner or later the change will be coming. Not wishing anybody bad things but it will happen sooner more likely than later.

We'll see what happens then, who gets it and what happens moving forward.

JR has already made it clear what he expects his family to do.
  #44  
Old 10-19-2018, 07:38 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by FielderJones View Post
1,608,817 / 81 = 19,862. So, almost twice 10K.
Actually the average was 20,110 as the Sox because of rainouts only had 80 home dates in 2018.
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  #45  
Old 10-19-2018, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Actually the average was 20,110 as the Sox

because of rainouts only had 80 home dates in 2018.

Oddly, they score Apr 28 2018 game 1 as 16,971 and game 2 as 16,070.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/t...e-scores.shtml


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