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  #1  
Old 04-25-2019, 12:52 PM
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thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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Default Rick Hahn haters thread

I figured certain people should have their own place to vent about how much our general manager sucks. You know who you are, so have at it.
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2019, 01:03 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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You mean instead of seemingly every single post-game thread and even now in the minor league forum? Say it ain't so!
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  #3  
Old 04-25-2019, 01:11 PM
Risk Risk is offline
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I don't know if I would qualify as a hater, and I have generally supported the rebuild, but needless to say, I am still pissed about the lack of the big FA (its not like 3B hasn't been a black hole for nearly a decade, or that there wasn't a need for a RF after sending Avi packing) signing to use as a foundation for the rebuild. This last off-season was both a personnel and PR disaster, period.

More than anything, right now I find Hahn to be emblematic of the problem that there seems to be absolutely no accountability for failure in this organization. If there was, Hahn would have already been shown the door.

Rant over. Thanks, that was therapeutic and I needed that.

Risk
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Last edited by Risk; 04-25-2019 at 02:38 PM.
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  #4  
Old 04-25-2019, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Risk View Post
More than anything, right now I find Hahn to be emblematic of the problem that there seems to be absolutely no accountability for failure in this organization. If there was, Hahn would have already been shown the door.
You could swap out Hahn for Williams, and it would make just as much sense.
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2019, 02:11 PM
longtimefan longtimefan is offline
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I'm not a Hahn hater. I credit him with the rebuild. Without that, we would be without hope. The rebuild may not guarantee a WS but we will be better; much better.
We don't know the inner workings of the Sox organization. Hahn is the front man of the leadership but his boss is Kenny whose boss is Jerry. You can't blame Hahn for Machado. You don't know what limitations were placed on Rick. I don't blame him for trading Frenando Tatis jr for Shields. This trade was stupid but I smell Kenny Williams all over that trade (i.e. trading prospects for players past their prime).
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2019, 02:15 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Risk View Post
I don't know if I would qualify as a hater, and I have generally supported the rebuild, but needless to say, I am still pissed about the lack of the big FA (its not like 3B hasn't been a black whole for nearly a decade, or that there wasn't a need for a RF after sending Avi packing) signing to use as a foundation for the rebuild. This last off-season was both a personnel and PR disaster, period.

More than anything, right now I find Hahn to be emblematic of the problem that there seems to be absolutely no accountability for failure in this organization. If there was, Hahn would have already been shown the door.

Rant over. Thanks, that was therapeutic and I needed that.

Risk
Can't argue with this comment.
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  #7  
Old 04-25-2019, 03:28 PM
esbrechtel esbrechtel is offline
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I'm more pissed about the accountability and I would love to have answers to the following questions...

How is Don Cooper still working with this team?

Who suggested the Sox sign Santana and trade for Nova?

Why didn't they sign Gio Gonzalez the first or second time he was available this year?

Why is Cease in AAA? The pitching on the major club is BRUTAL.

Who is responsible for not breaking out the money for a big FA this year?

Has this always been viewed as another "rebuild year?" I thought they were supposed to show signs of improvement THIS season.

Did they say we are not trying this year because of Kopech's injury?

This team just lost a series to a team actively trying to start their rebuild while the Sox are supposed to be coming out of theirs. It is infuriating.
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:44 PM
RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esbrechtel View Post
I'm more pissed about the accountability and I would love to have answers to the following questions...

How is Don Cooper still working with this team?

Who suggested the Sox sign Santana and trade for Nova?

Why didn't they sign Gio Gonzalez the first or second time he was available this year?

Why is Cease in AAA? The pitching on the major club is BRUTAL.

Who is responsible for not breaking out the money for a big FA this year?

Has this always been viewed as another "rebuild year?" I thought they were supposed to show signs of improvement THIS season.

Did they say we are not trying this year because of Kopech's injury?

This team just lost a series to a team actively trying to start their rebuild while the Sox are supposed to be coming out of theirs. It is infuriating.
Now this is a great post! I couldn’t have said it better!
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  #9  
Old 04-25-2019, 04:07 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esbrechtel View Post
I'm more pissed about the accountability and I would love to have answers to the following questions...

How is Don Cooper still working with this team?

Who suggested the Sox sign Santana and trade for Nova?

Why didn't they sign Gio Gonzalez the first or second time he was available this year?

Why is Cease in AAA? The pitching on the major club is BRUTAL.

Who is responsible for not breaking out the money for a big FA this year?

Has this always been viewed as another "rebuild year?" I thought they were supposed to show signs of improvement THIS season.

Did they say we are not trying this year because of Kopech's injury?

This team just lost a series to a team actively trying to start their rebuild while the Sox are supposed to be coming out of theirs. It is infuriating.
There's been a lot of talk about accountability going around lately, and I'd like to know what people would actually want from them. For them to say "my bad" on a signing when we are still in the first month of the season? Fire people in a rebuilding year when the player additions made were not long term effecting and as core pieces like Anderson and Moncada take massive strides forward?

Cooper is still with the team because he's proven that he knows how to get the most out of pitchers. They are not blaming him for the lack of talent that he's been tasked to oversee the last few years. They like direction that he is taking with Rodon and Lopez, and don't want to change their trajectory with a new pitching coach. He's also given credit for Sale and Quintana, the last 2 pitchers to have talent on the staff.

Who suggested Nova and Santana? Obviously either Hahn or Williams, as they make the personnel decisions for the org. They were only brought in to eat innings. If they both had an ERA of 4.50 everything would be great with the Sox?

Gio Gonzalez: How do you know they didn't reach out to him and he said he only wants to play for an immediate contender? If he was going to sign for cheap (which he did), why not sign for that with a good team that would for sure be an option?

Cease is in AAA because he isn't ready for the bigs yet. Period. He's still only throwing 5 inning outings currently. They are not going to disrupt their roadmap for him based on bad pitching in the bigs.

Who's responsible for not spending big in the offseason? That's Jerry, obviously. Been discussed to death on this site. They were only going to spend on Machado, if it was done "their way". Unfortunate line of thinking, but that's what it was.

Was only viewed as a another rebuild year when they missed out on Machado. More deals would have followed if they landed him.

Kopech: No, never said.

So the Sox lost a series to an other rebuilding team? Who cares. That's baseball. Bad teams lose to bad teams. Good teams also lose to bad teams. This happens frequently.
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  #10  
Old 04-25-2019, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
There's been a lot of talk about accountability going around lately, and I'd like to know what people would actually want from them. For them to say "my bad" on a signing when we are still in the first month of the season? Fire people in a rebuilding year when the player additions made were not long term effecting and as core pieces like Anderson and Moncada take massive strides forward?

Cooper is still with the team because he's proven that he knows how to get the most out of pitchers. They are not blaming him for the lack of talent that he's been tasked to oversee the last few years. They like direction that he is taking with Rodon and Lopez, and don't want to change their trajectory with a new pitching coach. He's also given credit for Sale and Quintana, the last 2 pitchers to have talent on the staff.

Who suggested Nova and Santana? Obviously either Hahn or Williams, as they make the personnel decisions for the org. They were only brought in to eat innings. If they both had an ERA of 4.50 everything would be great with the Sox?

Gio Gonzalez: How do you know they didn't reach out to him and he said he only wants to play for an immediate contender? If he was going to sign for cheap (which he did), why not sign for that with a good team that would for sure be an option?

Cease is in AAA because he isn't ready for the bigs yet. Period. He's still only throwing 5 inning outings currently. They are not going to disrupt their roadmap for him based on bad pitching in the bigs.

Who's responsible for not spending big in the offseason? That's Jerry, obviously. Been discussed to death on this site. They were only going to spend on Machado, if it was done "their way". Unfortunate line of thinking, but that's what it was.

Was only viewed as a another rebuild year when they missed out on Machado. More deals would have followed if they landed him.

Kopech: No, never said.

So the Sox lost a series to an other rebuilding team? Who cares. That's baseball. Bad teams lose to bad teams. Good teams also lose to bad teams. This happens frequently.
I was coming back to basically make the same post though you answered more of the questions than I would have.

I do want to add that I think it's obvious that Kopech's injury changed the way the team viewed 2019. Missing on Machado probably contributed to not wanting to commit big resources to this season. Obviously with Kopech one of Nova or Santana wouldn't be here.

I completely agree Cease should be brought along at the pace the team thinks is right for him and never based on fan angst.
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  #11  
Old 04-25-2019, 04:18 PM
longtimefan longtimefan is offline
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I can't argue and feel the same frustrations but here are my thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by esbrechtel View Post
I'm more pissed about the accountability and I would love to have answers to the following questions...

I agree with you but accountability has to start at the top. Reinsdorf has never held anyone accountable. This will not change as long as he's calling the shots.

How is Don Cooper still working with this team?
Same answer as above

Who suggested the Sox sign Santana and trade for Nova?

Why didn't they sign Gio Gonzalez the first or second time he was available this year?

Why is Cease in AAA? The pitching on the major club is BRUTAL.

Who is responsible for not breaking out the money for a big FA this year?
I'm guessing JR. The problem as I see it is they put all their eggs in the "Machado basket". They prevented them from going after a solid pitcher/catcher and whoever. They lost the Manny bid and it was too late to move on needed resources.

Has this always been viewed as another "rebuild year?" I thought they were supposed to show signs of improvement THIS season.
Not pretty so far but hopefully they start clicking.

Did they say we are not trying this year because of Kopech's injury?

This team just lost a series to a team actively trying to start their rebuild while the Sox are supposed to be coming out of theirs. It is infuriating.
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  #12  
Old 04-25-2019, 04:29 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I was coming back to basically make the same post though you answered more of the questions than I would have.

I do want to add that I think it's obvious that Kopech's injury changed the way the team viewed 2019. Missing on Machado probably contributed to not wanting to commit big resources to this season. Obviously with Kopech one of Nova or Santana wouldn't be here.

I completely agree Cease should be brought along at the pace the team thinks is right for him and never based on fan angst.
With Kopech, I think it changed a bit, obviously we wouldn't have Santana. Though I don't think we would have spent money on players like Pollack or McCutchen to make the Sox a few wins better. Kopech would still have been on an innings limit this year too, which would have limited the upside of the rotation.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:56 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
There's been a lot of talk about accountability going around lately, and I'd like to know what people would actually want from them. For them to say "my bad" on a signing when we are still in the first month of the season? Fire people in a rebuilding year when the player additions made were not long term effecting and as core pieces like Anderson and Moncada take massive strides forward?

Cooper is still with the team because he's proven that he knows how to get the most out of pitchers. They are not blaming him for the lack of talent that he's been tasked to oversee the last few years. They like direction that he is taking with Rodon and Lopez, and don't want to change their trajectory with a new pitching coach. He's also given credit for Sale and Quintana, the last 2 pitchers to have talent on the staff.

Who suggested Nova and Santana? Obviously either Hahn or Williams, as they make the personnel decisions for the org. They were only brought in to eat innings. If they both had an ERA of 4.50 everything would be great with the Sox?

Gio Gonzalez: How do you know they didn't reach out to him and he said he only wants to play for an immediate contender? If he was going to sign for cheap (which he did), why not sign for that with a good team that would for sure be an option?

Cease is in AAA because he isn't ready for the bigs yet. Period. He's still only throwing 5 inning outings currently. They are not going to disrupt their roadmap for him based on bad pitching in the bigs.

Who's responsible for not spending big in the offseason? That's Jerry, obviously. Been discussed to death on this site. They were only going to spend on Machado, if it was done "their way". Unfortunate line of thinking, but that's what it was.

Was only viewed as a another rebuild year when they missed out on Machado. More deals would have followed if they landed him.

Kopech: No, never said.

So the Sox lost a series to an other rebuilding team? Who cares. That's baseball. Bad teams lose to bad teams. Good teams also lose to bad teams. This happens frequently.
Just some thoughts.

Given the state of the franchise OVER AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME circa 2007 on, yes it probably would not be a bad idea to hold a press conference and do a mea culpa for the fan base. The track record for basically the past 12 years has been horrific. Admitting mistakes and announcing how things will be different (i.e. lay out a plan) would go a long way towards having the fan base take a step back and give some (notice I said some) benefit of the doubt.

The issue with Nova and Santana is they aren't even eating innings. If that was the sole purpose for getting them, they are failing at it and as others have posted the Sox have plenty of retreads in their own organization who could have been given a shot, done just as bad and not wasted money.

I again bring up what I was told by a high ranking member of the front office, if there aren't real, tangible signs of improvement this year on the field the pressure on the front office will be ratcheted up exponentially. And who knows where that could lead going into next year (Maybe another half assed approach to "going for it?")

Another dismal season could have major ramifications, maybe that would be good...maybe it would make things worse, who knows?
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:57 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Coop is here because he is a front office lackey and mouth piece. Its how he has survived this long, and why he was almost made manager.

Cooper has not helped one single young pitcher develop to their ceiling, not one. He isn't a highly regarded pitching coach anymore and its showing that the game is passing him by. Carson Fulmer had to go get coaching and help outside our organization to save his career. One of the first moves they told him to make... stop relying so much on that awful cutter he was being forced to throw.

I loved Cooper in 2005, but the guy has not deserved the lifelong job he has had for a while.

But the reality is, the Sox have NEVER been a team that puts winning first. This is a business first and winning is a secondary thought. We don't do things the way winning ball clubs do, and we likely never will. I don't blame Hahn for that, I think Hahn has his faults but I also think his hands are extremely tied by KW and JR.
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Old 04-25-2019, 05:29 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Just some thoughts.

Given the state of the franchise OVER AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME circa 2007 on, yes it probably would not be a bad idea to hold a press conference and do a mea culpa for the fan base. The track record for basically the past 12 years has been horrific. Admitting mistakes and announcing how things will be different (i.e. lay out a plan) would go a long way towards having the fan base take a step back and give some (notice I said some) benefit of the doubt.

The issue with Nova and Santana is they aren't even eating innings. If that was the sole purpose for getting them, they are failing at it and as others have posted the Sox have plenty of retreads in their own organization who could have been given a shot, done just as bad and not wasted money.

I again bring up what I was told by a high ranking member of the front office, if there aren't real, tangible signs of improvement this year on the field the pressure on the front office will be ratcheted up exponentially. And who knows where that could lead going into next year (Maybe another half assed approach to "going for it?")

Another dismal season could have major ramifications, maybe that would be good...maybe it would make things worse, who knows?
The Sox committed to a full scale rebuild, something they have never done. Not sure what you want considering they admitted they were "mired in mediocrity" and needed to completely change things and tear it down.

So let's just say that Nova and Santana suck the rest of the year. How does that change what happens to this rebuild? If they were to find other guys to have a 4.50 ERA they would be in a better position? Nova was the opening day starter for the Pirates just last season, and pitched well enough to warrant a 4th spot on a rebuilding teams rotation. Santana was brought in on a minor league deal to be a warm body pretty much, and I don't see him being around too much longer honestly. Gerrit Cole, Syndergaard, Nola, and Kluber have horrible ERAs currently, I bet people would be taking shots at Hahn if he acquired them too if they performed as such. The season is young, and players generally get back to their career norms.

For me, I only care about what Anderson, Moncada, Eloy, Lopez, Rodon, and a few others are doing on a daily basis. It sucks, but this season doesn't matter. How these players do will effect the teams of the future, and that's what I care most about because I'm starting to see a core develop in the Majors and minors that's worth being excited for.
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