*Official* Love That Leather 7-21 Postgame Thread

[Stanley]

This was the first game I watched the majority of in a long time, and it was a nice treat all around. Hawk and Stone were working well together and both seemed to genuinely be enjoying themselves. They did a nice job complementing the camera focus on the food at the Cell with some lively commentary on coming out and enjoying a game at the park. I know it was Sunday and the weather was great, which can make even the grumpiest of old timer's sing a happy tune, but hopefully they can keep this up.

Nice defense, nice to see Rios increase his trade value. Quintana scares me, though. Sucks that Beckham is out again, too. As much as I'm not a believer in him sustaining some success, he has clearly looked more comfortable at the plate during his hot streak. But I also think said hot streak is largely due to the way pitchers are throwing at him (like it is his rookie season).

[Tragg]

Quintana gets hit sometime...but he's a fighter.

I think this year has highlighted the importance of good D. WE played great today...most of the year we played poor D. Poor D, or even less than great D, would have resulted in an L.

A team with pitching as its strength cannot have poor D.

[JB98]

Originally Posted by Stanley

This was the first game I watched the majority of in a long time, and it was a nice treat all around. Hawk and Stone were working well together and both seemed to genuinely be enjoying themselves. They did a nice job complementing the camera focus on the food at the Cell with some lively commentary on coming out and enjoying a game at the park. I know it was Sunday and the weather was great, which can make even the grumpiest of old timer's sing a happy tune, but hopefully they can keep this up.

Nice defense, nice to see Rios increase his trade value. Quintana scares me, though. Sucks that Beckham is out again, too. As much as I'm not a believer in him sustaining some success, he has clearly looked more comfortable at the plate during his hot streak. But I also think said hot streak is largely due to the way pitchers are throwing at him (like it is his rookie season).

Can I ask why? In 20 starts, the kid is 5-2 with a mid-3s ERA. That's pretty good considering the ****ty team that is playing behind him.

I know he's not a future ace or All-Star or anything like that, but the time has come to stop thinking he's all smoke and mirrors. He's establishing himself as a respectable starting pitcher in the league. Both his ERA and his WHIP are better than league average this year, in fact.

[asindc]

Originally Posted by JB98

Can I ask why? In 20 starts, the kid is 5-2 with a mid-3s ERA. That's pretty good considering the ****ty team that is playing behind him.

I know he's not a future ace or All-Star or anything like that, but the time has come to stop thinking he's all smoke and mirrors. He's establishing himself as a respectable starting pitcher in the league. Both his ERA and his WHIP are better than league average this year, in fact.

He is already looking like he's going to be more consistent than Floyd ever was.

[DeadMoney]

Originally Posted by JB98

Can I ask why? In 20 starts, the kid is 5-2 with a mid-3s ERA. That's pretty good considering the ****ty team that is playing behind him.

I know he's not a future ace or All-Star or anything like that, but the time has come to stop thinking he's all smoke and mirrors. He's establishing himself as a respectable starting pitcher in the league. Both his ERA and his WHIP are better than league average this year, in fact.

He's 9th in the AL in pitcher WAR. Yeah, I'd agree that he's been a bit better than league average.

[SoxSpeed22]

If Quintana stays as a middle/back of the rotation starter, we should be all right. I'll admit he relies a bit too much on his fastball, but he can get a lot done with it. I think he still has plenty of room to improve and should be a good piece to have during this impending transitional phase.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by JB98

Can I ask why? In 20 starts, the kid is 5-2 with a mid-3s ERA. That's pretty good considering the ****ty team that is playing behind him.

I know he's not a future ace or All-Star or anything like that, but the time has come to stop thinking he's all smoke and mirrors. He's establishing himself as a respectable starting pitcher in the league. Both his ERA and his WHIP are better than league average this year, in fact.

Of course. Quintana is just not very good and the numbers will bear that out sooner or later. Speaking of Gavin Floyd, he also had a year when he was in the mid 3's in ERA and had 18 wins. After that, Gavin Floyd was only consistently giving me a headache. Perhaps a better example: Bruce Chen. A not overpowering lefty who relied on command and ground balls (and luck), and who also had an anomalous year where he sat in the mid 3's in ERA, which earned him a multi-year deal, IIRC.

I don't think it's wise at this point to expect mid 3's ERA out of Quintana year in year out, even after a whopping 20 starts. He may stick around in the majors for a while but I don't expect him to be someone a team can consistently rely on, nor am I stoked to have him rounding out our rotation. We shall see, though, I guess.

[MISoxfan]

The guy actually has 42 starts. He's 23 and makes $500,000 and is cost controlled for years. Maybe he won't pan out, but I'm glad to have him.

[JB98]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Of course. Quintana is just not very good and the numbers will bear that out sooner or later. Speaking of Gavin Floyd, he also had a year when he was in the mid 3's in ERA and had 18 wins. After that, Gavin Floyd was only consistently giving me a headache. Perhaps a better example: Bruce Chen. A not overpowering lefty who relied on command and ground balls (and luck), and who also had an anomalous year where he sat in the mid 3's in ERA, which earned him a multi-year deal, IIRC.

I don't think it's wise at this point to expect mid 3's ERA out of Quintana year in year out, even after a whopping 20 starts. He may stick around in the majors for a while but I don't expect him to be someone a team can consistently rely on, nor am I stoked to have him rounding out our rotation. We shall see, though, I guess.

Well, we'll see. Again, the expectations aren't real high, but I see no reason why he wouldn't be a serviceable pitcher to round out the rotation for the forseeable future -- especially during a transitional phase for the organization. He's been around the league a couple times now, and he's still holding his own.

I don't really see a comparison to Floyd.

[Domeshot17]

Originally Posted by JB98

Well, we'll see. Again, the expectations aren't real high, but I see no reason why he wouldn't be a serviceable pitcher to round out the rotation for the forseeable future -- especially during a transitional phase for the organization. He's been around the league a couple times now, and he's still holding his own.

I don't really see a comparison to Floyd.

Your line of thinking is good. Some people think Quintana is this future front line kid who is going to carry us with Sale. He is not. He is a 4/5. He is FINE as a 4/5. Same with Santiago. They are not 1-2-3 SP. They are not stoppers. They give you innings and a chance to win most games. They won't out pitch an ace in the playoffs, but they may save your bullpen getting there.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by Domeshot17

Your line of thinking is good. Some people think Quintana is this future front line kid who is going to carry us with Sale. He is not. He is a 4/5. He is FINE as a 4/5. Same with Santiago. They are not 1-2-3 SP. They are not stoppers. They give you innings and a chance to win most games. They won't out pitch an ace in the playoffs, but they may save your bullpen getting there.

Again, it needs to be said that Quintana currently ranks 9th in the AL in WAR for P, he is maybe not destined to be an ace like Chris Sale, but he is a good addition to any team's middle rotation.

I agree last year's Quintana looked to be a lot of smoke and mirrors, he was a soft tossing lefty without especially good command of his pitches and he wore down as the season dragged along. This offseason, he worked a lot with the Sox strength and conditioning coaches and the results show. He is not the same pitcher he was last year. He dials his fastball up to the mid-90s now, which can mask some of his command issues. He's actually a much better than average SP; he's basically the #3 P on what is one of baseball's better starting rotations.

[Domeshot17]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Again, it needs to be said that Quintana currently ranks 9th in the AL in WAR for P, he is maybe not destined to be an ace like Chris Sale, but he is a good addition to any team's middle rotation.

I agree last year's Quintana looked to be a lot of smoke and mirrors, he was a soft tossing lefty without especially good command of his pitches and he wore down as the season dragged along. This offseason, he worked a lot with the Sox strength and conditioning coaches and the results show. He is not the same pitcher he was last year. He dials his fastball up to the mid-90s now, which can mask some of his command issues. He's actually a much better than average SP; he's basically the #3 P on what is one of baseball's better starting rotations.

I do not disagree with you, but my reason for liking Jose at the 4 is the following (and I agree, he can be a 3, but I like him as a 4).

Game 3 tends to be a very pivotal game in a playoff series. Jose would be one of the weaker 3's to go into the playoffs in the AL. I don't think he gives you the best chance to win. He reminds me too much of Gavin Floyd. A player that the stats said should be fine, and the eye test left you feeling shaky. Gavin got the snot kicked out of him in the playoffs.

Obviously different players react in different ways, and maybe he will shine. I just think he will eventually settle into that reliable number 4 type role. I would LOVE to be shocked. I think he has value for sure.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Of course. Quintana is just not very good and the numbers will bear that out sooner or later. Speaking of Gavin Floyd, he also had a year when he was in the mid 3's in ERA and had 18 wins. After that, Gavin Floyd was only consistently giving me a headache. Perhaps a better example: Bruce Chen. A not overpowering lefty who relied on command and ground balls (and luck), and who also had an anomalous year where he sat in the mid 3's in ERA, which earned him a multi-year deal, IIRC.

I don't think it's wise at this point to expect mid 3's ERA out of Quintana year in year out, even after a whopping 20 starts. He may stick around in the majors for a while but I don't expect him to be someone a team can consistently rely on, nor am I stoked to have him rounding out our rotation. We shall see, though, I guess.

You just compared Quintana to Bruce Chen. Quintana tops out at 93/94. Chen tops out at 86. They're just alike.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by Domeshot17

Game 3 tends to be a very pivotal game in a playoff series. Jose would be one of the weaker 3's to go into the playoffs in the AL. I don't think he gives you the best chance to win. He reminds me too much of Gavin Floyd. A player that the stats said should be fine, and the eye test left you feeling shaky. Gavin got the snot kicked out of him in the playoffs.

#9 P in the American League currently

[TaylorStSox]

Quintana's average fastball velocity is 92.25 MPH. Hitters are hitting .205 against it. Soft tosser my ass.