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  #256  
Old 10-21-2018, 10:56 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Stephens was not left unprotected. You're thinking of Guerrero.

And the depth continues well past the top 30. There are pitchers like McClure, Battenfield, Parke, who barely missed out because the system is presently deep. By my count there are as many as 20 more worth keeping an eye on. If TINSTAAPP, some of these guys will take leaps forward in 2019.
Agreed.

Part of what has pushed some of those pitches out of our Top 30 is the plethora of highly-ranked outfielders.

In any other system, many of our 15-30 pitchers would be ranked higher. And many of the pitchers just outside our Top 30 would be in the Top 30 in other systems.

Pitching is always a need; it would be nice to get more high quality LHP in our system. But I still think 3B and C might be bigger overall needs.

Depending on what the Orioles and Royals do, our #3 pick this year should land us either, the best college catcher (Rutschman), a top college hitter, a top college pitcher, or a prize HS prospect.
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  #257  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:36 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Stephens was not left unprotected. You're thinking of Guerrero.

And the depth continues well past the top 30. There are pitchers like McClure, Battenfield, Parke, who barely missed out because the system is presently deep. By my count there are as many as 20 more worth keeping an eye on. If TINSTAAPP, some of these guys will take leaps forward in 2019.
yes, thank you re Stephens.
I think you're right on pitching prospects beyond the top 30 (and I'm not sure why a guy like Medeira is in the top 30) but as far as pitching that can help this team in the next year or 2, which to me is the reasonable period to get this team progressing, they could use a lot more.
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  #258  
Old 10-21-2018, 05:42 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
yes, thank you re Stephens.
I think you're right on pitching prospects beyond the top 30 (and I'm not sure why a guy like Medeira is in the top 30) but as far as pitching that can help this team in the next year or 2, which to me is the reasonable period to get this team progressing, they could use a lot more.
Sure, they could use a more reliable veteran than Rodon for the next year or two. I hope they sign one. They do not need to offer top dollar/many years to a free agent pitcher.

Does anyone want more lower-tier prospects to follow? Go to https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...=CHW&year=2018, scroll down to Organizational Pitching, see who's pitching at the most advanced levels for their age and putting up good numbers.

If someone jumps out at you (say, Andrew Perez, who pitched well for Kannapolis at 20) go look up his background. (Perez was last year's 8th round pick, so stuff's been written about him.)

Scroll down that list some more and you'll see that Medeiros is pretty young (22) to have spent the year in A ball. If he doesn't improve as a starter, he has the stuff to be a lockdown lefthander in a big league bullpen.
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  #259  
Old 10-21-2018, 07:52 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Go compare that list to every other team’s list. Once you do that, you will find your answer.
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
Development isn't linear. Never has been, never will be. Sure I'm concerned for a few of the players (Hansen above everyone else) but overall we're still sitting pretty and most minor league experts agree. Even Fangraphs looks favorably on this farm.
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Tragg, I agree with you that “we can never have too much pitching.”

And yes, the Braves, for instance, have more pitchers in the top of their rankings.

I do think that lots of clubs should envy the pitching in our system, though.

We need to keep in mind that several of our previously highly-ranked pitchers have lost their prospect status due to their major league appearances. Lopez and Giolito aren’t “prospects” anymore; they are young major league pitchers who are still learning and growing.

Then there are guys like Fulmer and Covey. They have major league “stuff” but maybe they aren’t suited to become traditional starters; the revolution in bullpen use over the past few years could result in both of them being high-leverage long relievers who can go max effort one time through the order every third day.

The 2018 results left something to be desired, but I’m also realistic enough to understand that there is still time for each of them to improve, even if I also know that not all of them will.

I think we’ll be fine in our 2020-2021 rotation if we can count on:

1. Rodon
2. Kopech
3. One among Lopez or Giolito
4. One among Cease or Dunning
5. One among the rest of our Top 30 to emerge

Because I also think that we’ll be able to assemble an effective bullpen from among who we have in the system, including Hamilton, Burr, Fry, Burdi (maybe not a closer, but still decent), Covey or Fulmer, etc., plus a couple of free agent acquisitions.

I don’t think that’s unrealistic at all.

Finally, as you have pointed out, recently they have been using their top picks on position players. I guess it would be nice to have Forrest Whitley instead of Zack Collins, but who could have predicted that a high school draftee like Whitley would make it to AA in his first full season? Alex Faedo over Jake Burger in 2017? If we had known Burger would rupture his Achilles twice, sure. But we won’t know who “won” the 2016 and 2017 drafts for a few more years.

Again, while I’d rather have more pitching in our system, I don’t think pitching is the weakness you make it out to be. And our depth of OF prospects gives us capital to trade when the time comes.
Excellent points, especially what I bolded.

Frater, that potential 2020-21 rotation helps put things in perspective even if some of these top prospects inevitably fall by the wayside.

I'm sure most of us agree with the old adage of "you can never have too much pitching depth". But, I don't see how that means the Sox are weak in pitching depth and negligent in getting enough pitching depth. By this logic, they'll always be weak and their management will always be failing to do enough to shore up pitching depth.....and the same goes for other MLB teams too by that logic.

No reason to write off Kopech because of TJS and Dunning because of his elbow strain issues. This is the type of injury where MOST PITCHERS MAKE A FULL RECOVERY FROM. Note that I said "MOST" and not "ALL". There's still a risk with both of these guys. But I don't see why people should think that the expectation of Kopech being a top of the rotation pitcher for us is over. We also should not discount the big step forward Dunning took in AA this year before he went down with an elbow injury. His future with the Sox still looks bright. It's not like these guys went down with shoulder injuries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Stephens was not left unprotected. You're thinking of Guerrero.

And the depth continues well past the top 30. There are pitchers like McClure, Battenfield, Parke, who barely missed out because the system is presently deep. By my count there are as many as 20 more worth keeping an eye on. If TINSTAAPP, some of these guys will take leaps forward in 2019.
Yep, several interesting names there. I'd add 2018 draftees Pilkington and Stiever, too. Sure, odds are these guys will never find success in the majors, but even if one of these guys finds success, that's a huge boost to our future rotation.

Last edited by Hitmen77; 10-21-2018 at 08:01 PM.
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  #260  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:13 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
yes, thank you re Stephens.
I think you're right on pitching prospects beyond the top 30 (and I'm not sure why a guy like Medeira is in the top 30) but as far as pitching that can help this team in the next year or 2, which to me is the reasonable period to get this team progressing, they could use a lot more.
....because the opinions of a number scouts and baseball analysts about his potential* upside aren't negated by the opinion of one person on a fan forum site no matter how badly that one person wants to make the Soria trade look like another Sox failure?

* no one is saying he's guaranteed to succeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Sure, they could use a more reliable veteran than Rodon for the next year or two. I hope they sign one. They do not need to offer top dollar/many years to a free agent pitcher.

Does anyone want more lower-tier prospects to follow? Go to https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...=CHW&year=2018, scroll down to Organizational Pitching, see who's pitching at the most advanced levels for their age and putting up good numbers.

If someone jumps out at you (say, Andrew Perez, who pitched well for Kannapolis at 20) go look up his background. (Perez was last year's 8th round pick, so stuff's been written about him.)

Scroll down that list some more and you'll see that Medeiros is pretty young (22) to have spent the year in A ball. If he doesn't improve as a starter, he has the stuff to be a lockdown lefthander in a big league bullpen.


....and to clarify, I assume you meant to say AA ball.
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  #261  
Old 10-21-2018, 09:23 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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....and to clarify, I assume you meant to say AA ball.
Yep, my bad.
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  #262  
Old 10-22-2018, 12:18 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
17. Burdi - all hype relief prospect who has done nothing on a professional level; a draft pick that epitomizes this philosophy of this front office


All hype? What in the world makes Burdi "hype"? Kid throws north of 100+, was a closer at one of the top college programs in America and was cruising towards the big leagues until an injury derailed him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
6. Dunning - starter; hurt; projected as back of the rotation
10. Hansen - starter followed a great year with a terrible year


Dunning was turning heads before his injury, a lot of scouts have changed the entire "back of the rotation" prediction.

Hansen was injured, hard to have any sort of year when you are on the shelf for four months.

Your inexplicable hatred of the front office seems to cloud your judgment...
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  #263  
Old 10-22-2018, 11:10 AM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Anyone know anything about new Sox signee Enoy Jimenez?

Also critically, do they have any shot at signing Emoy, Eooy, and Epoy?
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  #264  
Old 10-22-2018, 04:28 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
.... If so, by the end of the season (with some promotions happening much earlier) we could see:


Chicago: Eloy, Engel, Cordell, Booker (plus CF/RF defense helps pitchers)
Charlotte: Basabe, Call, Delmonico
Birmingham: Adolfo, Rutherford, Gonzalez, Robert
Winston-Salem: Walker, ...
Am I correct in thinking that the options clock has already started for Basabe and Adolfo? I want to say that they both would be out of options at the start of the 2021 season.

Unless I'm totally wrong about this, it's another factor to consider as the Sox plan to move these guys up the farm system over the next couple of years.
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  #265  
Old 10-22-2018, 05:09 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77
Am I correct in thinking that the options clock has already started for Basabe and Adolfo? I want to say that they both would be out of options at the start of the 2021 season.

Unless I'm totally wrong about this, it's another factor to consider as the Sox plan to move these guys up the farm system over the next couple of years.
You are correct. Basabe and Adolfo both used an option year in 2018. They both have two more remaining, likely 2019 and 2020.
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  #266  
Old 10-22-2018, 06:10 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
You are correct. Basabe and Adolfo both used an option year in 2018. They both have two more remaining, likely 2019 and 2020.
I assume that's becuase they started in the minors so young and are rule 5 eligible if not on the 40-man roster, right?
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  #267  
Old 10-22-2018, 06:16 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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I assume that's becuase they started in the minors so young and are rule 5 eligible if not on the 40-man roster, right?
Iím pretty sure thatís the case with Adolfo, but might also be true with Basabe as well.

If they do indeed make the majors, both Basabe and Adolfo will have narrow windows to earn a starting spot given their dwindling options (that may be nonexistent by the time they arrive) as well as the plethora of additional highly-regarded OF prospects on similar timelines.
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  #268  
Old 10-22-2018, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Iím pretty sure thatís the case with Adolfo, but might also be true with Basabe as well.

If they do indeed make the majors, both Basabe and Adolfo will have narrow windows to earn a starting spot given their dwindling options (that may be nonexistent by the time they arrive) as well as the plethora of additional highly-regarded OF prospects on similar timelines.
If they don't succeed at first, they won't get offered huge contract elsewhere. Plenty of journeymen players out there who run out of options and don't break the bank. These two might end up like that and then get a single big contract when they do break out or allow the Sox to lock them up for 4 years at a reasonable rate to get some financial security.
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  #269  
Old 10-22-2018, 06:49 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
Anyone know anything about new Sox signee Enoy Jimenez?

Also critically, do they have any shot at signing Emoy, Eooy, and Epoy?
Just stop. Enoy is enoy.
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  #270  
Old 10-22-2018, 07:23 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Just stop. Enoy is enoy.
Ugh. Thatís just enoy-ing. 😂
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