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  #151  
Old 09-16-2019, 02:41 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
I'm assuming that there are some resource constraints, and if so I'd argue hard that money is better spent securing a top-end starting pitcher than an RF. In an ideal world, sure you'd get Cole and Ozuna or Cole and Soler/Choo or something. But if there's prioritization needed it's do whatever you need to to get the SP and then figure out LF and DH. IMO between Collins, Mercedes, Vaughn, and random veterans you should be able to find a DH. Then Leury/Engel in LF gives you a pretty strong defensive OF.

I don't think this team is a title contender next year anyway, I'm looking for a playoff contender. Title contention is 2021 and beyond.
Where are the resource constraints? The Sox only have $15mil committed to players next year as of now...

Plenty of money to go after a top FA SP to fill that need and also turn their attention to RF, DH, and C. They can easily add $60mil on new players for next year's roster.

Leaving DH up to Collins, Mercedes, Vaughn, and "random veterans", is a recipe for disaster. Collins has been bad in the majors, Mercedes is 26 with zero big league ABs, and Vaughn is in A ball. "Random veterans", can't possibly be the game plan or you get stuck with old has-beens who might not hit their weight.

The Sox need to get aggressive in free agency and or creative with trades filling SP, RF, DH and another catcher.

Just because winning a title next year isn't as likely as in '21, doesn't mean they can't take a big step forward and be a WC team and give everyone some playoff experience.
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  #152  
Old 09-16-2019, 03:02 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Where are the resource constraints? The Sox only have $15mil committed to players next year as of now...

Plenty of money to go after a top FA SP to fill that need and also turn their attention to RF, DH, and C. They can easily add $60mil on new players for next year's roster.

Leaving DH up to Collins, Mercedes, Vaughn, and "random veterans", is a recipe for disaster. Collins has been bad in the majors, Mercedes is 26 with zero big league ABs, and Vaughn is in A ball. "Random veterans", can't possibly be the game plan or you get stuck with old has-beens who might not hit their weight.

The Sox need to get aggressive in free agency and or creative with trades filling SP, RF, DH and another catcher.

Just because winning a title next year isn't as likely as in '21, doesn't mean they can't take a big step forward and be a WC team and give everyone some playoff experience.
Agreed there should be plenty of money to go around. But I'm okay not spending anything on DH. That position can be used to give some of the kids (Collins/Mercedes) a shot, and also to give some of the regulars a day off from being in the field.

Btw, there's very little difference between WC contender and WS contender. The best regular season team doesn't always win the world series... all it takes is the right guys getting hot at the right time. That's one of the reasons I prefer a longer contention window to shortening the contention window in order to put together a 2-season juggernaut.
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  #153  
Old 09-16-2019, 03:35 PM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Where are the resource constraints? The Sox only have $15mil committed to players next year as of now...

Plenty of money to go after a top FA SP to fill that need and also turn their attention to RF, DH, and C. They can easily add $60mil on new players for next year's roster.

Leaving DH up to Collins, Mercedes, Vaughn, and "random veterans", is a recipe for disaster. Collins has been bad in the majors, Mercedes is 26 with zero big league ABs, and Vaughn is in A ball. "Random veterans", can't possibly be the game plan or you get stuck with old has-beens who might not hit their weight.

The Sox need to get aggressive in free agency and or creative with trades filling SP, RF, DH and another catcher.

Just because winning a title next year isn't as likely as in '21, doesn't mean they can't take a big step forward and be a WC team and give everyone some playoff experience.
Agreed, there should be plenty. But if there's say concern about doling out multiple 6-7yr big $ contracts in one offseason, all I'm saying is Cole+Leury (RF)>>>Nova+Ozuna. (Or sub in whichever specific players at SP/RF, you get the concept.)
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  #154  
Old 09-16-2019, 03:36 PM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Where's Eloy in this equation?
Brainfart. I mean Leury/Engel would be in RF. Eloy is clearly LF. Robert would be CF or move to RF if you play Engel in CF.
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  #155  
Old 09-16-2019, 03:46 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Would love to see this. Then Leury can start the season in CF with Engel on the bench and Engel can be sent down when Robert comes up and Leury can be the backup OF.
Engel > Leury, both offensively and defensively.

Since Engelís return, he has a .681 OPS. Bad, yes, but a whole lot better than Leuryís .639 OPS in the same time frame.
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  #156  
Old 09-16-2019, 03:50 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Collins has been bad in the majors
Please have a little patience with Collins. A slow start (.123/.254/.228) is not something to panic over.

Robin Ventura was at .117/.293/.217 in early May of his rookie season after an 0-for-41 slump.

More recently, Yoan Moncada was .211/.250/.263 in his first 20 PA with Boston, including 12 strikeouts. Look at him now.
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  #157  
Old 09-16-2019, 04:28 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Please have a little patience with Collins. A slow start (.123/.254/.228) is not something to panic over.

Robin Ventura was at .117/.293/.217 in early May of his rookie season after an 0-for-41 slump.

More recently, Yoan Moncada was .211/.250/.263 in his first 20 PA with Boston, including 12 strikeouts. Look at him now.
Oh I definitely will have patience with him, but there is no way he can be just given 500 ABs next year at this point. Moncada was the number 1 overall prospect in baseball, Collins hasn't been a top 100 in a few years and has a below average hit tool by all scouting sites.

Ventura, just looked this up, had only 1 year in the minors before being thrown into the fire to sink or swim.

Collins should start in AAA and work on his D and still fine tune his slightly more aggressive approach he used in the second half of the year. If he's playing well, and a spot opens for him to get PT via injury or something, then he should be more prepared next time around. That's how contending teams bring up prospects. It was a good experience for him to get his cup of coffee with the big league club this year, but he isn't ready for regular ABs at this point.
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  #158  
Old 09-16-2019, 04:34 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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I feel like we're talking in circles here. Collins can do anything a major league catcher has to do, except hit MLB hitting. He can't learn how to hit MLB hitting in AAA. The Sox should bring him up at the start of next season and then send him down to the minors in late May if he hits .200 again.
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  #159  
Old 09-16-2019, 04:48 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Collins is unlikely to be a starting catcher. But yes, he does have to learn how to hit major league pitching, and he should be playing every day for the next couple of weeks. (With time split between C/1B/DH.)

If he continues to struggle, we'll get a higher draft pick, and he'll start 2020 in the minors.

If he starts to figure it out, he'll start 2020 on the big league roster.

(IMO, having to work on his defense probably held him back. If he was spending all that time working on his hitting, he'd have reached the majors sooner.)
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  #160  
Old 09-16-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Engel > Leury, both offensively and defensively.

Since Engelís return, he has a .681 OPS. Bad, yes, but a whole lot better than Leuryís .639 OPS in the same time frame.
Sample size, but maybe Engel really is figuring things out. He's shown some pop recently after showing it at Charlotte. It's not a huge issue for me either way as we're talking about hopefully the 4th OF and that's not a position I'm going to tear my hair out about.
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  #161  
Old 09-16-2019, 11:34 PM
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Eloy officially cracked .800 OPS tonight with his homer. He's currently at .803 on the season. .814 for the second half and .965 over the last 30 days.
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  #162  
Old 09-17-2019, 12:48 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Well if it's all about age, then this Sox fan must be the most pessimistic fan of all:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/15/us/11...rnd/index.html
He was as old for the 1917 World Series as I was for the 1959 World Series.
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  #163  
Old 09-17-2019, 01:33 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I think the biggest part of the rebuild that "stalled" this season was the development of the pitching- here are the pitchers that were part of the White Sox "Top 30 Prospects" as of 2018- other than progress from Cease and Stiever (maybe Johnson?)- not really any good news in the last year.

Kopech
Cease
Dunning
Hansen
Hamilton
Burdi
Pilkington
Madeiros
Stephens
Lambert
Johnson
Ruiz
Flores
Adams
Stiever
Henzman
Yes, the pitching depth is much more suspect than the position player depth. As far as positions players are concerned, things look really good. The entire IF plus two OF spots promise to be addressed internally with a bunch of high-quality players. For the other spots, DH and RF aren't exactly the most difficult or expensive positions to fill externally if none of our internal options pan out. Catching remains a question mark.

Pitching on the other hand doesn't look quite so rosy. I'm still confident in Giolito, Cease, and Kopech despite the fact that some fans like to constantly point out that Giolito could be a one-season wonder and that the other guys haven't proven anything in the majors. I get it.....but I'm still confident in those 3 despite the fact that they could all fall of a cliff and none of us can guarantee their success, etc, etc. But even if they live up to their promise, having 3 quality starters and then having train wrecks every 4th and 5th day isn't going to get this team very far. Too bad there have been so many set backs mainly due to injuries (Dunning, Flores, Lambert) and some prospects looking to be busts (Fulmer, Hansen). At least Flores's injury wasn't arm related and he looked pretty good when healthy this year. Between him, Stiever, Dunning, and Lopez, it's not crazy to think that one of them will turn out to be a serviceable MLB starter along side the top 3 guys.

The bullpen is another big question mark. Colome will be 31 next year and probably isn't a long-term answer. Bummer looks great but Fry regressed this year. Burdi and Hamilton had disastrous, injury-plagued years. Tyler Johnson lost a lot of time due to injury, too. That'll need to be addressed by the time this team is ready to compete again.
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  #164  
Old 09-17-2019, 03:05 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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After watching Leury in the OF, I'm all for keeping Engel around. Sox can get away with it with one extra bench spot next year and hopefully three good hitting OFers. Leury is horrible in center and not enough arm in right. Engel's probably the best defensive player we've got.
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  #165  
Old 09-17-2019, 03:20 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
After watching Leury in the OF, I'm all for keeping Engel around. Sox can get away with it with one extra bench spot next year and hopefully three good hitting OFers. Leury is horrible in center and not enough arm in right. Engel's probably the best defensive player we've got.
I expect the bench next year to include Engel (OF), Leury (OF/IF), and either Yolmer or Mendick (IF). I think all 4 of them could be solid in those roles when they're not playing every day and getting over-exposed.
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