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  #16  
Old 08-26-2019, 01:15 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel View Post
The changes are killing the game of baseball. Some get it, it seems a lot don't
Yeah, no team is ready to settle for 3rd place just because people want to see more singles.
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  #17  
Old 08-26-2019, 01:59 PM
I_Liked_Manuel I_Liked_Manuel is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Yeah, no team is ready to settle for 3rd place just because people want to see more singles.
I'm not sure why we don't just play home run derby and give bonus points for exit velocity, launch angle, or any other pointless stat that Benetti says during a game
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  #18  
Old 08-26-2019, 02:13 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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We live in the golden age of baseball strategy. There are now teams that employ shifts for every single batter in the opposing lineup, when shifts used to just be for the big left-handed slugger. Teams are doing bullpen starts in the playoffs and NL teams are batting the pitcher 8th and the big slow muscular 1B at leadoff. This doesn't even get into off the field stuff like launch angles.

The game certainly looks WEIRD to people Goose Gossage's age, heck it even looks weird to millennials who grew up when Craig Counsell was a player and not a manager. But it's never been more strategic, teams have never been thinking more about how to milk every last run out of the game.
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  #19  
Old 08-26-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
We live in the golden age of baseball strategy. There are now teams that employ shifts for every single batter in the opposing lineup, when shifts used to just be for the big left-handed slugger. Teams are doing bullpen starts in the playoffs and NL teams are batting the pitcher 8th and the big slow muscular 1B at leadoff. This doesn't even get into off the field stuff like launch angles.

The game certainly looks WEIRD to people Goose Gossage's age, heck it even looks weird to millennials who grew up when Craig Counsell was a player and not a manager. But it's never been more strategic, teams have never been thinking more about how to milk every last run out of the game.
This is a great point. It may look funny but that's because teams are actually trying to figure out on a pitch by pitch basis how to be the most productive.
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  #20  
Old 08-26-2019, 02:58 PM
PatK PatK is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
We live in the golden age of baseball strategy. There are now teams that employ shifts for every single batter in the opposing lineup, when shifts used to just be for the big left-handed slugger. Teams are doing bullpen starts in the playoffs and NL teams are batting the pitcher 8th and the big slow muscular 1B at leadoff. This doesn't even get into off the field stuff like launch angles.

The game certainly looks WEIRD to people Goose Gossage's age, heck it even looks weird to millennials who grew up when Craig Counsell was a player and not a manager. But it's never been more strategic, teams have never been thinking more about how to milk every last run out of the game.

I think we see the same article about just about every sport every couple of years talking about how great the old days were.
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  #21  
Old 08-26-2019, 03:07 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel View Post
I'm not sure why we don't just play home run derby and give bonus points for exit velocity, launch angle, or any other pointless stat that Benetti says during a game
Iíd much prefer to win ugly than to lose pretty.
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  #22  
Old 08-26-2019, 03:50 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
This is a great point. It may look funny but that's because teams are actually trying to figure out on a pitch by pitch basis how to be the most productive.
Some production when we now have more Ks than hits.
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  #23  
Old 08-26-2019, 03:50 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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We live in the golden age of baseball strategy.
Uh no; there was a time when there was no DH.
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  #24  
Old 08-26-2019, 04:04 PM
TomC727 TomC727 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
I canít presume to tell other people how to feel.

However, I disagree with the idea that todayís game has no strategy and is based all on feeling.

I find many things interesting and thoughtful about launch angles and exit velocity and spin rates and pitch tunneling. A lot of brain power is going into how to maximize certain skills, and how to deploy those skills to get 27 outs (when pitching) and to score as many runs as possible (when hitting).

I also realize itís not for everyone, and thatís OK.

Baseball changed when Babe Ruth clobbered homers, and changed again when Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier. It changed when it started to be played on artificial turf in multipurpose stadiums and domes, and changed again when it went back to grass. Tommy John surgery changed it again, and now advanced mathematics and high resolution cameras are changing it again.

What I like about baseball is that it can change and yet still remain fundamentally the same game.
Very well said.
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  #25  
Old 08-26-2019, 04:32 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel View Post
I'm not sure why we don't just play home run derby and give bonus points for exit velocity, launch angle, or any other pointless stat that Benetti says during a game
When ďhome runs and walks and strikeouts are icky!Ē is the crux of your argument, youíre not going to convince people.

Nearly 85% of all baserunners die on the basepaths before they score a run. Over 46% of all RBI are attached to home runs despite the fact that only 3.6% of all plate appearances result in home runs.

Novaís recent hot streak is a perfect example. In 48.0 IP, he has allowed 36 hits, 7 walks, and 3 HBP. The team committed 2 errors that allowed a baserunner to reach base. 46 baserunners in 48.0 innings is great, but itís even more noteworthy when only 25 of his 144 outs have come via strikeouts. He also induced 10 double plays. As far as runs scored against him, he has allowed 9 runs (5 earned), with 4 of those runs scoring via 3 home runs allowed.

Out of 43 baserunners who did not drive themselves in, only 6 scored, and a 2-run home run accounted for 3 advanced bases for a runner on 1B who reached via error. It took 154 instances of homer-less contact (119 outs, 33 hits, 2 ROE) to create 6 runs, and 10 of those instances of contact resulted in an even worse outcome than a strikeout.

This doesnít even require launch angle, exit velocity, or anything beyond traditional stats. Itís just common sense.
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  #26  
Old 08-26-2019, 04:36 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Uh no; there was a time when there was no DH.
Lots of those guys pitched 9 innings anyway.
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  #27  
Old 08-26-2019, 06:09 PM
I_Liked_Manuel I_Liked_Manuel is offline
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Mahoney, the crux of the argument and the point of the article is that this approach to baseball has made it unwatchable, even to hall of gamers and current managers. What we're watching is akin to running the triple crown with quarterhorses at 200 yards
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  #28  
Old 08-26-2019, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel View Post
Mahoney, the crux of the argument and the point of the article is that this approach to baseball has made it unwatchable, even to hall of gamers and current managers. What we're watching is akin to running the triple crown with quarterhorses at 200 yards
Time will tell if the changes to the game will make a major impact on it's popularity. A few years sample size is not going to tell us much. Also the owners won't care if the money is the same or better. So if they draw less but money stays good they won't bat an eye.

Also, would be interesting to see what total MLB ratings are including website and PPV on Cable are.

The simple fact is kids are moving away from traditional sports also.
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  #29  
Old 08-26-2019, 06:26 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel View Post
Mahoney, the crux of the argument and the point of the article is that this approach to baseball has made it unwatchable, even to hall of gamers and current managers. What we're watching is akin to running the triple crown with quarterhorses at 200 yards
That canít be helped. Plus, Goose Gossage has been a sentient ďOld Man Yells at CloudĒ meme for decades, about a great many things. The only use I would have for Goose Gossageís constant negativity and surliness would be to line my birdcage.
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  #30  
Old 08-26-2019, 08:02 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
'"I canít watch these games anymore," Gossage said. "Itís not baseball. Itís unwatchable. A lot of the strategy of the game, the beauty of the game, itís all gone."'

The problem is that strategy and patience once were part of the game; today's society wants none of the thinking. It's all about feeling.

Ironically, without that strategy and patience, the games are longer, the pace is slower than ever. Baseball's efforts to create more action has resulted in less action spread out over a longer game.
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