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  #106  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:03 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
While I am on board with the idea of not drafting Abrams, let's not pretend he's some sort of talent-less hack that would be the biggest reach in the history of reaches. The kid is quite a talent and is in most everybody's top 5.
Exactly - there is outside confirmation that he's a top prospect. It's not just based on KW's eye.
I'd prefer him over another swing-hitch (or arm-hitch)
  #107  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:15 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Please stop constantly talking up Semien like he's some great player we traded away. Since going to Oakland he is a .723 OPS and 99 OPS+, with OK defense and speed. The definition of average. I do not regret or miss him for a second.
I agree - he's not a great player. That's the point.

These college hitters the Sox drafted are struggling to get past AA. Collins is okay I guess, but is relying on walks (will he get them in the majors? AAA is replete with sketchy pitching) hitting only .250 and striking out in nearly 1/2 of his at bats in AAA. I don't think college hitter has been the magical answer.
  #108  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:01 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
I agree - he's not a great player. That's the point.

These college hitters the Sox drafted are struggling to get past AA. Collins is okay I guess, but is relying on walks (will he get them in the majors? AAA is replete with sketchy pitching) hitting only .250 and striking out in nearly 1/2 of his at bats in AAA. I don't think college hitter has been the magical answer.

He's relying on walks to have an OPS of over .900?


I'm not sold that Collins will cut it as a major leaguer, but let's not pretend he's a one-trick pony who is getting by based on walks. In the end, it'll all come down to his defense. If he can develop into a serviceable defensive catcher and hit "only" .250 for us with LH power, that sounds like a win.
  #109  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:33 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
I agree - he's not a great player. That's the point.

These college hitters the Sox drafted are struggling to get past AA. Collins is okay I guess, but is relying on walks (will he get them in the majors? AAA is replete with sketchy pitching) hitting only .250 and striking out in nearly 1/2 of his at bats in AAA. I don't think college hitter has been the magical answer.
It's their first few months in AA for most of them, averages are on the rise over the last several weeks and Collins OPS remains in the 1.0 area.
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  #110  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:24 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by GoSox2K3 View Post
He's relying on walks to have an OPS of over .900?


I'm not sold that Collins will cut it as a major leaguer, but let's not pretend he's a one-trick pony who is getting by based on walks. In the end, it'll all come down to his defense. If he can develop into a serviceable defensive catcher and hit "only" .250 for us with LH power, that sounds like a win.
It sounds better than what he looks right now, but I don't see that as a "win." There are numerous with stats like that in AAA, many of whom are AAAA players.
Wins are putting all star players out there with the top 10 picks, not serviceable catchers...if the goal really is to win.
  #111  
Old 05-22-2019, 11:00 AM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
I agree - he's not a great player. That's the point.

These college hitters the Sox drafted are struggling to get past AA. Collins is okay I guess, but is relying on walks (will he get them in the majors? AAA is replete with sketchy pitching) hitting only .250 and striking out in nearly 1/2 of his at bats in AAA. I don't think college hitter has been the magical answer.
You keep going back to Semien like his trade is some dark mark on Hahn's record. Also, Semien's WAR, which is rather high the past few season's and the reason for you bringing him up, makes zero sense.

So the Sox should stop drafting college hitters at the top of the draft because we don't have an All Star yet from the bunch? It's only been a few years since they've changed philosophy and had higher picks. Just because one or some don't work out, has no bearing on how Andrew Vaughn or any future top college bats do. I feel very confident that if the Sox continue to draft players like Madrigal, Burger, Collins, Walker, etc they will find themselves with a steady stream of professional hitters for years to come.
  #112  
Old 05-22-2019, 11:08 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
While I am on board with the idea of not drafting Abrams, let's not pretend he's some sort of talent-less hack that would be the biggest reach in the history of reaches. The kid is quite a talent and is in most everybody's top 5.
The problem is - There is a CLEAR top 2 talent in the draft, then Witt is in a class by himself at 3, and then there is everyone else.

I just don't think a team can make 2 top 4 picks in back to back years with both having next to no power tool potential or real chance to be a major game changer.

If Abrams had a 60 potential hit tool with a 55-60 eye potential and 75-80 speed, by all means, take him. But when he is maybe a 55 hit with maybe a 50 eye and legit 75-80 speed, and he doesn't have a glove that is sure to play at short, just no. Add to the fact he is extremely raw and you are now talking about a kid that won't likely be part of the current core we have, with an aggressive estimate of a late debut in 2023, he makes zero sense. But if Kenny is reinserting himself, the kid is athletic, which checks the only box KW ever cared about.
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  #113  
Old 05-22-2019, 11:14 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Exactly - there is outside confirmation that he's a top prospect. It's not just based on KW's eye.
I'd prefer him over another swing-hitch (or arm-hitch)
With all due respect, do you have any idea what a hitch is? Assuming you are referring to Vaughn, the kid does not have one. He has probably the most pure swing in this entire draft.

There is a world of difference between the extreme hand hitch Collins came out with, and Vaughn's swing.
  #114  
Old 05-22-2019, 12:01 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
It sounds better than what he looks right now, but I don't see that as a "win." There are numerous with stats like that in AAA, many of whom are AAAA players.
Wins are putting all star players out there with the top 10 picks, not serviceable catchers...if the goal really is to win.
Oh, I agree that there are plenty of players that put up good numbers in AAA and then turn out to be AAAA players. That's way I said I'm not sold on Collins just yet. He could very well be one of those guys.

But, you mentioned his .250 average at AAA and suggested that he's just getting by with his ability to walk. That's not entirely accurate. The reality is that his OPS has been near 1.0 most of this season so far. Guys with a .250 average and a .950 OPS aren't just getting by on their walk rate.

I wasn't clear in my earlier post (my apologies), but I meant "serviceable" from a defensive perspective only. Of course, he'd have to be more than that serviceable offensively to be a successful pick. If he can stick at catcher (and yes, that's still an IF) and be a left handed power bat that puts up a .250/.375/.550 slash line in the majors, I don't see why that's not a win and not a person who can be a catcher on a winning team.

This is off subject on the draft watch, but I just wanted to point out that there's more to Collins's hitting ability that being able to draw a walk.
  #115  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:01 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by blurry View Post
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...aft-japan-deal

Story about how the Braves 8th pick from last season has decided to go play in Japan for 1) more money and 2) the chance of entering free agency earlier than expected. I don't blame him one bit. The MLBPA spent years of giving up money and service to the younger players to placate older players who "earned it" (they didn't). Now they're seeing what happens.
Maybe this is misplaced but I have more faith in the professional coaching players receive in Japan vs here. A completely worthwhile gamble. If it doesn't work out, he'll have $6 million and could probably get a shot as a FA back here. If he succeeds, he'll get a huge FA deal.
  #116  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:17 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Obviously, the Sox haven't yet 'hit' on any of college bats taken in recent drafts (still early). I made that observation earlier. But in fairness to them, only 1 was taken in the top 5 - Madrigal. Burger was #11, Sheets #49, and Collins #10.

The aforementioned players have no bearing at all on Vaughn or anyone else. You can't reasonably conclude that a college bat isn't the right choice because it hasn't worked out yet.

With that said, I'd be lying if I didn't cop to being a little disappointed in Madrigal. He's only 22 and it's not like his lack of power is a surprise, but I hoped he'd be further along at this point.

Not picking on Abrams, but #3 overall seems a little rich for a prep that has already exposed some holes in his game and who doesn't hit for power.
  #117  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:24 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
Obviously, the Sox haven't yet 'hit' on any of college bats taken in recent drafts (still early). I made that observation earlier. But in fairness to them, only 1 was taken in the top 5 - Madrigal. Burger was #11, Sheets #49, and Collins #10.

The aforementioned players have no bearing at all on Vaughn or anyone else. You can't reasonably conclude that a college bat isn't the right choice because it hasn't worked out yet.

With that said, I'd be lying if I didn't cop to being a little disappointed in Madrigal. He's only 22 and it's not like his lack of power is a surprise, but I hoped he'd be further along at this point.

Not picking on Abrams, but #3 overall seems a little rich for a prep that has already exposed some holes in his game and who doesn't hit for power.
In fairness, Burger is coming off two serious injuries (I actually don't think he's back yet) and didn't Madrigal break his wrist at Oregon last year? That can take awhile to recover from.
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  #118  
Old 05-22-2019, 03:27 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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The more I read and see videos on Vaughn, it be absurd if the Sox pass on him over a project HS SS.
  #119  
Old 05-22-2019, 04:20 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
Obviously, the Sox haven't yet 'hit' on any of college bats taken in recent drafts (still early). I made that observation earlier. But in fairness to them, only 1 was taken in the top 5 - Madrigal. Burger was #11, Sheets #49, and Collins #10.

The aforementioned players have no bearing at all on Vaughn or anyone else. You can't reasonably conclude that a college bat isn't the right choice because it hasn't worked out yet.

With that said, I'd be lying if I didn't cop to being a little disappointed in Madrigal. He's only 22 and it's not like his lack of power is a surprise, but I hoped he'd be further along at this point.

Not picking on Abrams, but #3 overall seems a little rich for a prep that has already exposed some holes in his game and who doesn't hit for power.
Yes, I realize he's less than a full year into his pro career. But, I too can't help but feel a bit frustrated seeing his lukewarm performance so far. There's still time, of course, for him to make adjustments and start displaying that elite hit tool.

I really can't fault the Sox for taking him at #4 even with the knowledge that he'll never be a power hitter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
In fairness, Burger is coming off two serious injuries (I actually don't think he's back yet) and didn't Madrigal break his wrist at Oregon last year? That can take awhile to recover from.
Last I heard about Burger (a couple of weeks ago) is that he's playing in extended spring training games and is still on track to return to regular minor league play in early June. So, hopefully that means he'll be activated from the IL in a couple of weeks.
  #120  
Old 05-23-2019, 05:18 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Thereís some scuttlebutt that the Sox are leaking an intent to draft Abrams in an effort to get the Orioles and Royals to re-evaluate their own draft boards.

At least, I hope thatís the case.
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