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  #136  
Old 09-21-2019, 08:47 AM
SoxandtheCityTee SoxandtheCityTee is offline
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Sitting Tim while he's leading the race for the batting title -- not to preserve his average but to try out possible future late-inning defensive replacements for a handful of games at season's end -- seems to me to be taking Nothing This Year Matters to satirical levels. Everyone knows that his defense needs to improve, but having the best average in the league is a pretty, pretty big deal.
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  #137  
Old 09-21-2019, 09:59 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
I don't think anyone is arguing that Tim's defense this year has been what it needs to be for the Sox to contend. What they are arguing is that looking at how his errors come about, it's reasonable (I'd argue even likely) that going forward those errors are likely to come down, and that it's foolish to look at the errors in isolation, ignore the range, and talk about moving him.

In fact, there was a recent article in the Athletic where Renteria said he has encouraged Tim to try and make throws from different arm angles and positions so that he can figure out what plays to make and what to eat when he gets to balls outside most SS's range. That's the development process, and if you assume it won't continue, then sure he's not where he needs to be. But that's like arguing we should consider Eloy to be a LF with an OPS of .811 - it's accurate, but virtually meaningless in terms of expected performance next year.

Here's the Athletic article: https://theathletic.com/1219468/2019...-at-the-plate/
Nice article, and interesting that the Sox are actually encouraging Anderson to make more off-balance throws. It's good to know that this is intentional and he's working on improving those throws, so that hopefully one day he'll have both the range and the accuracy.

His defense seems to have improved lately, as it did throughout the 2018 season. IIRC, he had a whole bunch of errors early on, and then another bunch after he came back from the DL. Maybe at this point in his career he just still needs the daily reps before he's really feeling comfortable out there? That too seems like something that could improve in later seasons.

I also found it interesting to read that Anderson credited Steverson with helping him refine his hitting approach over the last couple years, since he came in pretty raw. I don't think I've noticed as many people calling out the hitting coach this season as usual (and let's be honest, the hitting coach is always an easy target for offensive struggles). Also didn't know that Steverson's nickname in the clubhous is "Trick"!
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  #138  
Old 09-21-2019, 11:37 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
Nice article, and interesting that the Sox are actually encouraging Anderson to make more off-balance throws. It's good to know that this is intentional and he's working on improving those throws, so that hopefully one day he'll have both the range and the accuracy.
Encouraging a player to make more unbalanced throws? That's discouraging.

Not to mention unsound.
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  #139  
Old 09-21-2019, 11:47 AM
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Encouraging a player to make more unbalanced throws? That's discouraging.

Not to mention unsound.
Depends on the athlete. Some guys have the natural ability to do that consistently with the right mechanics. Tim is probably one of those guys. I donít think the team is encouraging him to intentionally look to make unbalanced throws but to learn how to do it if necessary.

People with Timís range are going to find themselves faced with that option as the only viable option many times throughout the season. If he can learn to be consistent doing it, then it has the potential to be dozens of extra outs every year.
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  #140  
Old 09-21-2019, 11:55 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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When you throw off balance it's never natural.

The angle of the arm is never the same. Angle likely increases stress which increases the risk of injury.

The plant foot differs; the weight on the plant foot is never distributed correctly. That's a problem.

When you finish the throw, depending on how off balance you are, you may land awkwardly and injure yourself.


I'd be interested to know how many of TA's throwing errors were out due to being off-balance due to less that ideal fundamentals as opposed to throwing off balance out of necessity.

Last edited by Grzegorz; 09-21-2019 at 12:08 PM.
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  #141  
Old 09-21-2019, 12:17 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Encouraging a player to make more unbalanced throws? That's discouraging.

Not to mention unsound.
Theyíre encouraging him to practice off balance throws for situations when setting his feet and throwing over the top would take too much time to get the out. Knowing when he has enough time to set his feet and when he doesnít is part of the learning process. With Andersonís athleticism heís going to find himself in the position more than most where an off-balanced throw is the only way to get the out, and if he can get good at it it will lead to extra outs that other SSs wouldnít be able to make.
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  #142  
Old 09-21-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
Theyíre encouraging him to practice off balance throws for situations when setting his feet and throwing over the top would take too much time to get the out. Knowing when he has enough time to set his feet and when he doesnít is part of the learning process. With Andersonís athleticism heís going to find himself in the position more than most where an off-balanced throw is the only way to get the out, and if he can get good at it it will lead to extra outs that other SSs wouldnít be able to make.
Exactly. Every player will encounter plays they donít have time to use perfect mechanics to get the out. By figuring out how best to do that they can increase the likelihood of getting an out or reducing the chance of an error or injury.

Itís a learning process for someone with as much natural athleticism and range as Tim has.
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  #143  
Old 09-21-2019, 01:16 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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I'm all for this, but it isn't like he wasn't going through those drills during and after last season. His problems ARE correctable, but it's entirely possible they might not be corrected. I don't see improvement in his defense between last year and this year (which is a little troubling), and really it's his big year with the bat that's saved his status as a starter. If he put up last year's numbers with this year's defense, we'd probably be spending the offseason looking for a replacement. Ultimately, he bought himself more time, and there's no way they team is looking to replace him (short of trading for a superstar at another position of need in a blockbuster). But he'll need to half his errors next year, or something is going to give.
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  #144  
Old 09-21-2019, 11:12 PM
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I'm going to lay out my ultimate reason for wanting Tim to be the starting SS and not be replaced by some supposedly better defender in late innings or really ever except when he needs a day off.

I think Tim has a driving motivation to be the best SS he possibly can. I think it's the only thing that motivates him. He wants to be known as a great player. He wants to set an example. He won't settle for second best. He truly believes he can be the best SS in the game and it's all he cares about.

I want that attitude at SS every single inning I can have it. I don't think he'll accept a ton of errors as a "oh well" kind of thing. I think he'll work his ass off day and night and back through the day again to be better. I trust him not to accept mediocrity and I KNOW he's got the raw talent and athleticism to be that good. If all it takes is effort, then he'll truly be a great player and he'll do it at SS. I think there's a very real chance we'll be talking about him in the same breath as guys like Appling and Aparicio when all is said and done.

I realize that's a lot to hang on the guy and I know he has a lot to prove to get there, but if he fails it won't be for lack of trying or talent.

But that's just my $0.02. I could be wrong.
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  #145  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:56 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I'm going to lay out my ultimate reason for wanting Tim to be the starting SS and not be replaced by some supposedly better defender in late innings or really ever except when he needs a day off.

I think Tim has a driving motivation to be the best SS he possibly can. I think it's the only thing that motivates him. He wants to be known as a great player. He wants to set an example. He won't settle for second best. He truly believes he can be the best SS in the game and it's all he cares about.

I want that attitude at SS every single inning I can have it. I don't think he'll accept a ton of errors as a "oh well" kind of thing. I think he'll work his ass off day and night and back through the day again to be better. I trust him not to accept mediocrity and I KNOW he's got the raw talent and athleticism to be that good. If all it takes is effort, then he'll truly be a great player and he'll do it at SS. I think there's a very real chance we'll be talking about him in the same breath as guys like Appling and Aparicio when all is said and done.

I realize that's a lot to hang on the guy and I know he has a lot to prove to get there, but if he fails it won't be for lack of trying or talent.

But that's just my $0.02. I could be wrong.
I feel the same. I feel like his attitude is something the Sox need more of and his contract is a ridiculous value. Any suggestion of moving him is a bad one - unless you want to pull out the MVP 2005 trade perimeters.
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  #146  
Old 09-22-2019, 04:28 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I realize that's a lot to hang on the guy and I know he has a lot to prove to get there, but if he fails it won't be for lack of trying or talent.

But that's just my $0.02. I could be wrong.

You're not wrong. (Because I agree with you and I am never wrong.) How many WSI posters would have bet that TA would hit over three hundred and flirt with the batting title? Certainly not me. He has a talent and a drive that makes me very happy he is a member of the Chicago White Sox. He's hands down, my favorite player to watch.
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  #147  
Old 09-22-2019, 07:39 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I'm going to lay out my ultimate reason for wanting Tim to be the starting SS and not be replaced by some supposedly better defender in late innings or really ever except when he needs a day off.

I think Tim has a driving motivation to be the best SS he possibly can. I think it's the only thing that motivates him. He wants to be known as a great player. He wants to set an example. He won't settle for second best. He truly believes he can be the best SS in the game and it's all he cares about.

I want that attitude at SS every single inning I can have it. I don't think he'll accept a ton of errors as a "oh well" kind of thing. I think he'll work his ass off day and night and back through the day again to be better. I trust him not to accept mediocrity and I KNOW he's got the raw talent and athleticism to be that good. If all it takes is effort, then he'll truly be a great player and he'll do it at SS. I think there's a very real chance we'll be talking about him in the same breath as guys like Appling and Aparicio when all is said and done.

I realize that's a lot to hang on the guy and I know he has a lot to prove to get there, but if he fails it won't be for lack of trying or talent.

But that's just my $0.02. I could be wrong.
I hope youíre right. But (to paraphrase you) I donít want the team making personnel decisions based on what fans think.

I see a smart player who has immense physical talent, gives maximum effort and is a natural leader. That may make him a White Sox for life. Not necessarily a shortstop for life.
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  #148  
Old 09-22-2019, 08:02 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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BTW, I thought Moncada would have trouble moving to third. I was totally wrong and couldnít be happier about it. If Anderson wins a GG next year, I will be just as happy.
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  #149  
Old 09-22-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I hope youíre right. But (to paraphrase you) I donít want the team making personnel decisions based on what fans think.

I see a smart player who has immense physical talent, gives maximum effort and is a natural leader. That may make him a White Sox for life. Not necessarily a shortstop for life.
I agree. I don't want the Sox picking their players based on any fans preference, least of all mine. I don't pretend to know what is going on with the inner workings of the team and whether I agree with every decision they make or not, I am sure they know a heck of a lot more about baseball than me or anyone posting at WSI or elsewhere.

I also think it's going to be damned hard to find someone with Tim's range to replace him. I don't want a fire hydrant who makes good throws over there. The outs lost will not be made up by the errors saved.
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  #150  
Old 09-22-2019, 10:48 AM
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Just for an update Tim finished at .335 while Rendon fell to .329 and LaMahieu fell to .328.

Yelich is officially in second place for MLB.

"The Redhot" Yoan is at .315 and climbing he's officially 4th in the AL and 10th in MLB.
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