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  #106  
Old 12-08-2019, 05:41 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Who is that person? 2-3 WAR in RF is top 10 across the league. Yeah, that's not Bryce Harper, Christian Yelich, Aaron Judge, or Mookie Betts. But other than those guys, Ozuna would be as good a bet as anyone else in RF to be the next on that list. And of everyone else he's the only one that's put up a 6 WAR season before (and not that long ago).


edit: Mohoney - this answer can apply to you too. I'd also be alright with Castellanos. But let's also not act like his best year wasn't 3 WAR, and he didn't even get there last year.
Trade for one of: Pederson, Verdugo, Benintendi, Nimmo, Conforto. All are available to some degree, some more than others of course.

Ozuna has had 1 good season and the rest have been very mediocre. Last year was the only other .800 OPS season and he barely got there even with a juiced ball. Castellanos at least has been very consistent the last 4 seasons, and is younger with more offensive upside now being out of Comerica Park.
  #107  
Old 12-08-2019, 05:44 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Who is that person? 2-3 WAR in RF is top 10 across the league. Yeah, that's not Bryce Harper, Christian Yelich, Aaron Judge, or Mookie Betts. But other than those guys, Ozuna would be as good a bet as anyone else in RF to be the next on that list. And of everyone else he's the only one that's put up a 6 WAR season before (and not that long ago).


edit: Mohoney - this answer can apply to you too. I'd also be alright with Castellanos. But let's also not act like his best year wasn't 3 WAR, and he didn't even get there last year.
Yeah, his defense is awful, but we also don’t need to worry about Castellanos coming anywhere close to a sub-.800 OPS, either. For Ozuna, not so much...
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  #108  
Old 12-08-2019, 06:13 PM
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2-3 WAR is not really helping anything. That’s my point.

Let’s face facts. We’re basically spending Twins/Indians/Brewers/DBacks money on this team. That makes free agency a non-starter to acquire the 4-5+ WAR players who win you championships. In order to access those players, they have to be either extremely short-term 1-2 year players on the trade market, or they have to be youngsters.

Since we’re looking to add cost-controlled talent without subtracting too much of it, that rules out the trades for 1-2 year rentals. What does that leave as the most feasible option to acquire legitimate difference makers? Acquiring positive value players by absorbing negative value players.

Instead of signing a “meh” player like Ozuna at a neutral dollar value for his production, take back a negative value player like Heyward—who, like Ozuna, is bound to provide a sizable upgrade to that position anyway, only smaller—to access a likely positive value player in Happ or a certain positive value player in Hoerner.

“Meh” player + good prospect > slightly less “meh” player + nothing.

Again, I’m not really in favor of either option. I would rather just pay the extra money for Castellanos, who can give you that 125+ wRC+ or OPS+ and provide a truly dynamic impact. Unfortunately, it is what it is.
Castellanos career wRC+. 112
Ozuna career wRC+. 112

Castellanos projected wRC+ for 2020 112
Ozuna projected wRC+ for 2020 119
  #109  
Old 12-08-2019, 06:38 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Also with this Ozuna rumor: It says that he will travel to Chicago on Monday to sign with the Sox, however Hahn, Kenny and Reinsdorf will be, or already are in San Diego for the Winter Meetings...
  #110  
Old 12-08-2019, 07:01 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Also with this Ozuna rumor: It says that he will travel to Chicago on Monday to sign with the Sox, however Hahn, Kenny and Reinsdorf will be, or already are in San Diego for the Winter Meetings...

That could also just be an honest mistake. Ozuna is supposed to be traveling to the winter meetings either way.
  #111  
Old 12-08-2019, 07:05 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Trade for one of: Pederson, Verdugo, Benintendi, Nimmo, Conforto. All are available to some degree, some more than others of course.

Ozuna has had 1 good season and the rest have been very mediocre. Last year was the only other .800 OPS season and he barely got there even with a juiced ball. Castellanos at least has been very consistent the last 4 seasons, and is younger with more offensive upside now being out of Comerica Park.

Verdugo is not available. Other than Pederson, none of those guys have upside potential. And Pederson is a rental. And also...not as good as Ozuna or Castellanos.


Look...the offseason isn't going as planned. We're in the key signing phase and we wiffed on our greatest need and it appears the team isn't ready to commit the funds necessary for the only players on the market that can still fill that void. But they have money to spend. Ozuna is probably the best player available to us. Not spending on him or saving that money isn't really that likely when you look at what's available next offseason.


Being completely honest, after missing out on Wheeler I already am starting to feel like this rebuild has failed. We're not engaging on the top pitchers, and we need a top pitcher to take the next step. We might be competitive still in the window with the right moves, but we're probably never going to be a contender. At least a guy like Ozuna makes us as good a team as possible given the sad, sorry circumstances of our team management.
  #112  
Old 12-08-2019, 09:52 PM
Mingo Mingo is offline
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If Ozuna gets signed - there is a log jam with outfielders and catchers that would make for obvious trade material.
  #113  
Old 12-08-2019, 10:19 PM
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If Ozuna gets signed - there is a log jam with outfielders and catchers that would make for obvious trade material.

What?


We have Eloy - who's really not an outfielder, Robert - who isn't going to be up on day one, Garcia - who is likely the 4th outfielder, and really nobody else.
  #114  
Old 12-08-2019, 10:25 PM
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We have 2 concurrent threads with the same 4 people arguing about whether or not Ozuna should be signed by the White Sox.

I hope to god whatever happens tomorrow will put this thing to rest.
  #115  
Old 12-08-2019, 11:41 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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If Marcell Ozuna is the best free agent we can realistically obtain, then just bail on 2019 free agency altogether and offer Moncada a 12/$300 extension. It would cover his 4 years of team control and 8 years after that (ages 25-36). Go $20 per year base for 12 years, and $6 per year deferred for 10 years afterward.

If we can’t bring in difference makers from the outside, then we don’t have much choice other than trying to home-grow them and extend them long-term. If we can’t build a top-notch team for a 4-year window, then we don’t have much choice other than trying to build the “3 or 4 over-leveraged stars, 3 or 4 more over-leveraged complementary pieces, and hope everything breaks right” teams of yesteryear.

At least the stars will actually be stars this time around, and the supporting guys will also be guys who were highly regarded prospects and have star upside. In addition, the Tigers are no longer big spenders, so it’s not like we will be getting out-muscled financially by any other AL Central opponents.

That said, I do have to admit that I was hoping we would be the ones in the division doing the financial bullying once this rebuild completed. I was hoping we would be the ones making a managerial change when one is so obviously needed. I was hoping we would be the ones monopolizing the AL Central’s guaranteed postseason berth for a good half-decade.

Maybe we’re all just jumping the gun by a year, and 2021 is the year that all those things start happening. I sure as hell hope so.
  #116  
Old 12-09-2019, 03:16 PM
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Hearing Strasburg to the Nats and Rendon to the Phillies. Not hearing numbers yet.
  #117  
Old 12-09-2019, 04:22 PM
Mingo Mingo is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
What?


We have Eloy - who's really not an outfielder, Robert - who isn't going to be up on day one, Garcia - who is likely the 4th outfielder, and really nobody else.
I was referring the high minor group of Rutherford, Walker, Basabe, Gonzales and Adolfo. Signing an OF for 4-5 years - makes these guys all expendable. The same situation exists at Catcher - in Collins, Zavala and Mercedes. These are the kind of guys that go for a salary dump or maybe for another high minors position of need, or deal sweeteners in a major deal of some kind.
  #118  
Old 12-09-2019, 04:59 PM
PaleHoser PaleHoser is offline
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Hearing Strasburg to the Nats and Rendon to the Phillies. Not hearing numbers yet.
Strasburg's deal reportedly 7 years $245M per MLB.com.
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  #119  
Old 12-09-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mingo View Post
I was referring the high minor group of Rutherford, Walker, Basabe, Gonzales and Adolfo. Signing an OF for 4-5 years - makes these guys all expendable. The same situation exists at Catcher - in Collins, Zavala and Mercedes. These are the kind of guys that go for a salary dump or maybe for another high minors position of need, or deal sweeteners in a major deal of some kind.
I think all of the OFers have higher value than they currently present. You have to wait another season on them and hope health and experience drive up their stock.
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  #120  
Old 12-09-2019, 05:54 PM
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No Ozuna for those concerned:


Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
· 4h
Jerry Reinsdorf had a laugh about Marcell Ozuna reports. He said he called Sox GM Rick Hahn and asked him, “Am I having a senior moment? Because I don’t recall any conversation about Marcell Ozuna.” He said Hahn assured him that it wasn’t a senior moment and there is no such deal



https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status...10806771617793
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