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  #1  
Old 01-14-2019, 02:20 PM
Wsoxmike59 Wsoxmike59 is offline
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Default Article on Veeck talking about Sox games in Milwaukee

I'm sorry if this resurrecting this old thread is a no no, but I found an article on the Milwaukee Sentinel recounting the days when the Sox played a number of "Home" games in County Stadium. I was just 8 and 9 years old at the time, but even then I could sense Milwaukee was courting the White Sox to move 90 miles north.



Did anybody on this board ever attend any of those Milwaukee Sox games? I know a couple people in the Sox Fans On Deck fan club who did. I didn't attend my first Brewers game in Milwaukee until 1974. And the memories of the White Sox calling that place home was still a fresh memory in my head.



https://www.jsonline.com/story/life/...ome/576362002/
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:39 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is online now
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Never attended one of those Milwaukee Sox games though saw quite a few Sox-Brewers game at County Stadium.
The Sox weren't the only team that played home games in another city, the Dodgers before they moved from Brooklyn to LA played 7 games in 1956 and again in 57 at Roosevelt Stadium in Jersey City NJ.

Teams in the NBA in the 1950s regularly played home games in other cities, the night Wilt Chamberlain scored 100 points against the Knicks in 1962 was a Warriors home game played in Hershey PA.

Our old Chicago Cardinals played 2 home games in 1958 and again in 59 at Metropoltan Stadium in the Twin Cities.
The Packers for years would play 2 homes a year in Milwaukee.
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Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 01-14-2019 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 01-14-2019, 02:42 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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I attended a Marlins home game at US Cellular Field.
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  #4  
Old 01-14-2019, 02:44 PM
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I attended a Marlins home game at US Cellular Field.

Me too. The Hurricane Game.
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2019, 03:28 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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"Proud to be Your Bud" Selig was definitely trying to steal the Sox for Milwaukee and when he didn't get them he paid the organization back by voting against Bill Veeck getting the team in December 1975. He was hoping they'd move even though by that time he had the Brewers.

Have hated him ever since that happened. Nothing but a snake oil salesman and a ****ty commissioner.
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:52 PM
jshanahanjr jshanahanjr is offline
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Old 01-16-2019, 02:12 AM
cub killer cub killer is offline
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Whatever the case may be, the Brewers should have been in the ALW, and us in the ALE. There is no excuse for that mixup. We lost tons of ad dollars due to that blunder. Don't know if Sox ownership raised a fuss, they should have. We shoulda been in ALE while flubs in NLW. Instead, they get better road ratings due to start time, which means more cash for them. And we get the shaft.
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:57 AM
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Whatever the case may be, the Brewers should have been in the ALW, and us in the ALE. There is no excuse for that mixup. We lost tons of ad dollars due to that blunder. Don't know if Sox ownership raised a fuss, they should have. We shoulda been in ALE while flubs in NLW. Instead, they get better road ratings due to start time, which means more cash for them. And we get the shaft.

It wasn't a mix up. The divisional alignment was the result of a political division made the the American League. And the shaft may be exaggerated.

When the divisions were formed in 1969, the White Sox were upset about being put in the West with two new expansion teams, a 1961 expansion team, the relocated original Washington Senators and the relocated Kansas City A's, not to mention three West Coast teams. But that was a true geographical split. The NL West had teams in Atlanta and Cincinnati because the Cubs and Cardinals fought to stay together in the East. At the time, interdivision teams had six home and six away. Intradivision teams had nine home and nine away. It amounted to two trips from, say the Yankees to Chicago and three trips from the Pilots.

After the Seattle Pilots moved to Milwaukee, the White Sox and Brewers were both in the AL West in 1970 and 1971. When the second Senators team moved to Arlington, Texas, for the 1972 season, the White Sox and Brewers both argued to be moved to the East. If I had access to the Tribune, I could find the story about the league vote, which angered the White Sox.

The Brewers had natural rivalries with the White Sox and Twins, but the Brewers didn't care. If the AL had the same sensibilities as the NL had in 1969, the Royals would have been moved to the East to keep the Twins, Brewers and White Sox together, although it wouldn't matter in the balanced-schedule years.

Competitively, the 1972 league decision could have cost the White Sox a trip to the ALCS, if not the World Series. The Sox finished 1972 with the league's second-best record behind the eventual champion A's. The White Sox had a very good season led by Dick Allen's MVP year and might have done at least as well with an AL East schedule.

Between the 1977 expansion and the 1994 expansion, the AL had a balanced schedule, so there really wasn't any difference between being in the AL East or West but for the standings. The White Sox actually played more games against AL East teams annually from the late 1970s through early 1990s. Not competing with teams in the East was often not a bad thing. Of course, the postseason wasn't watered down with wild cards.

In 1983, the Sox won the AL West by 20 games but only finished 1 game better than the AL East champion Orioles. There's no way of knowing how well the Sox would have done in 1983 had they been in a close competitive race, but the possible AL West Brewers may not have posed the same challenge as the Orioles in the ALCS.

Last edited by TDog; 01-16-2019 at 04:03 AM.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:26 AM
Railsplitter Railsplitter is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
It wasn't a mix up. The divisional alignment was the result of a political division made the the American League. And the shaft may be exaggerated.

When the divisions were formed in 1969, the White Sox were upset about being put in the West with two new expansion teams, a 1961 expansion team, the relocated original Washington Senators and the relocated Kansas City A's, not to mention three West Coast teams. But that was a true geographical split. The NL West had teams in Atlanta and Cincinnati because the Cubs and Cardinals fought to stay together in the East. At the time, interdivision teams had six home and six away. Intradivision teams had nine home and nine away. It amounted to two trips from, say the Yankees to Chicago and three trips from the Pilots.

After the Seattle Pilots moved to Milwaukee, the White Sox and Brewers were both in the AL West in 1970 and 1971. When the second Senators team moved to Arlington, Texas, for the 1972 season, the White Sox and Brewers both argued to be moved to the East. If I had access to the Tribune, I could find the story about the league vote, which angered the White Sox.

The Brewers had natural rivalries with the White Sox and Twins, but the Brewers didn't care. If the AL had the same sensibilities as the NL had in 1969, the Royals would have been moved to the East to keep the Twins, Brewers and White Sox together, although it wouldn't matter in the balanced-schedule years.

Competitively, the 1972 league decision could have cost the White Sox a trip to the ALCS, if not the World Series. The Sox finished 1972 with the league's second-best record behind the eventual champion A's. The White Sox had a very good season led by Dick Allen's MVP year and might have done at least as well with an AL East schedule.

Between the 1977 expansion and the 1994 expansion, the AL had a balanced schedule, so there really wasn't any difference between being in the AL East or West but for the standings. The White Sox actually played more games against AL East teams annually from the late 1970s through early 1990s. Not competing with teams in the East was often not a bad thing. Of course, the postseason wasn't watered down with wild cards.

In 1983, the Sox won the AL West by 20 games but only finished 1 game better than the AL East champion Orioles. There's no way of knowing how well the Sox would have done in 1983 had they been in a close competitive race, but the possible AL West Brewers may not have posed the same challenge as the Orioles in the ALCS.
The Cubs and Cardinals would up in the NL East because Busch and Wrigley preferred 18 games against the "lowly" Mets and Phillies to 18 games against the Dodgers and Giants. Of, course, the Mets threw a monkey wrench into things by winning 100 games in 1969.

I don't know if the Bud Selig had more clout among the owners than John Allyn or the decision was made by a coin flip, but it like all "what if" situations, the Sox in the AL east is a moot point.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:14 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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The Cubs and Cardinals would up in the NL East because Busch and Wrigley preferred 18 games against the "lowly" Mets and Phillies to 18 games against the Dodgers and Giants. Of, course, the Mets threw a monkey wrench into things by winning 100 games in 1969.

I don't know if the Bud Selig had more clout among the owners than John Allyn or the decision was made by a coin flip, but it like all "what if" situations, the Sox in the AL east is a moot point.
I have read that with the Cubs and Cardinals, it was a matter of travel. I also read that it was easier to schedule the Cubs and White Sox alternating with one at home and the other on the read if they played in opposite divisions. That didn't seem to make much sense considering the number of times the Sox would be hosting the A's when the Cubs were in San Francisco or something similar involving Chicago and New York or LA. It also seems odd that the White Sox would be more concerned about being in a division with attractive opponents than the Cubs. But it was a big story for the Sox when the Sox didn't get into the AL East after the 1971 season, and they petition the league to move to the East after that.

In any case, the Brewers being in the AL East only affected the number of times the Yankees came to Comiskey through 1972 to 1976. Even competitively in schedule-balanced 1977 when the White Sox finished in third place 12 games behind the Royals, they would have finished in fourth place 10 games behind the Yankees, despite having the league's best record in July.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:32 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is online now
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To me, the problem was not that the Sox were in the West (although the late starts for West Coast games were a pain for Sox fans), but rather the inequity of the Cubs and Cardinals being in the East, while the Braves and the Reds were in the West. After all, Atlanta and Cincinnati are in the Eastern Time Zone.
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Old 01-16-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
"Proud to be Your Bud" Selig was definitely trying to steal the Sox for Milwaukee and when he didn't get them he paid the organization back by voting against Bill Veeck getting the team in December 1975. He was hoping they'd move even though by that time he had the Brewers.

Have hated him ever since that happened. Nothing but a snake oil salesman and a ****ty commissioner.
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It is a miracle we still have the White Sox, and I'm thankful for them everyday.
It's remarkable how close we came to losing the Sox to Seattle in 1975. Bill Veeck tells the story in this article from the March 15, 1976 issue of Sports Illustrated. The link goes to SI's archived copy of the magazine and you can scroll through it to Page 72 where the story begins.

The bottom line is that MLB was facing a lawsuit from Seattle for not replacing the Pilots when they were moved after one season to Milwaukee by Bud Selig. The Sox were broke, which was convenient for MLB. They planned to let the Sox go belly-up and then move the franchise to Seattle. Charlie Finley could then move his A's to Chicago and occupy Comiskey Park. And Milwaukee would get a big-league team to replace the Braves, who had moved to Atlanta a few years before.

But then Veeck showed up to buy the White Sox. Selig was the owner's-committee head with say-so over club sales. If Veeck's group was successful, Selig's whole scheme would fall apart: he wouldn't get his team, the Seattle lawsuit might proceed, and noisy Finley wouldn't get his wish. Selig tried putting impossible conditions on Veeck's purchase plans, which Veeck was able to overcome. The owners had no choice but to agree to the sale of the Sox to Veeck.

Two years later, Seattle got the Mariners. Selig still had the Brewers (Pilots), and we all lived happily ever after.

Except that Selig eventually became commissioner:

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Old 01-18-2019, 02:43 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is online now
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It's remarkable how close we came to losing the Sox to Seattle in 1975. Bill Veeck tells the story in this article from the March 15, 1976 issue of Sports Illustrated. The link goes to SI's archived copy of the magazine and you can scroll through it to Page 72 where the story begins.

The bottom line is that MLB was facing a lawsuit from Seattle for not replacing the Pilots when they were moved after one season to Milwaukee by Bud Selig. The Sox were broke, which was convenient for MLB. They planned to let the Sox go belly-up and then move the franchise to Seattle. Charlie Finley could then move his A's to Chicago and occupy Comiskey Park. And Milwaukee would get a big-league team to replace the Braves, who had moved to Atlanta a few years before.

But then Veeck showed up to buy the White Sox. Selig was the owner's-committee head with say-so over club sales. If Veeck's group was successful, Selig's whole scheme would fall apart: he wouldn't get his team, the Seattle lawsuit might proceed, and noisy Finley wouldn't get his wish. Selig tried putting impossible conditions on Veeck's purchase plans, which Veeck was able to overcome. The owners had no choice but to agree to the sale of the Sox to Veeck.

Two years later, Seattle got the Mariners. Selig still had the Brewers (Pilots), and we all lived happily ever after.

Except that Selig eventually became commissioner:

Many thanks went out to ex Bear and Channel 2 sportscaster Johnny Morris with his SOS (Save Our Sox) campaign who did a great job encouraging fans to write letters to the Commissioner of Baseball and the American League president. Mayor Richard J. Daley offered tons of support also. I was not a big fan of Veeck but he came in at the last minute and kept the franchise in Chicago, so thanks to him also. No telling how many years I have lost off my life span with almost losing the Sox on 3 different occasions not to mention all the losing we have had to put up with especially the past 6 years.

Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 01-18-2019 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 01-20-2019, 01:50 AM
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I believe “The Lords of the Realm” cited that the primary reason behind the Cubs and the Cardinals being placed in the NL East was Philip K. Wrigley refusing to be put into the western division because of TV.

The advent of divisional play in 1969 resulted in an unbalanced schedule. National League teams played three home and home series (18 games) vs teams in their own division, but only two home and home (12 games) vs teams in the other division.

Wrigley wanted a majority of road games played at 6:00 or 7:00 pm CT rather than 9:00 pm CT. Better ratings, results on 10:00 pm news and made it a lot easier to follow the team.

What I never understood was how the Brewers were moved to the AL East rather than the Sox when the Senators moved to Texas before the 1972 season. The Sox were the lone original AL team in the Western Division
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Old 01-20-2019, 07:45 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is online now
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I believe “The Lords of the Realm” cited that the primary reason behind the Cubs and the Cardinals being placed in the NL East was Philip K. Wrigley refusing to be put into the western division because of TV.

The advent of divisional play in 1969 resulted in an unbalanced schedule. National League teams played three home and home series (18 games) vs teams in their own division, but only two home and home (12 games) vs teams in the other division.

Wrigley wanted a majority of road games played at 6:00 or 7:00 pm CT rather than 9:00 pm CT. Better ratings, results on 10:00 pm news and made it a lot easier to follow the team.
I get why Wrigley wanted to be in the NL East. I don’t understand why the other owners acquiesced. Did Wrigley have photos of them in compromising positions?
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