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  #31  
Old 02-06-2019, 08:37 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz
No. If managers are stupid enough to burn out arms then that's on them.

Get guys up in the pen. Have them ready to go after getting to the mound. A couple throws that's it. No landscaping, conversing with the catcher, PC or manager. If the reliever is not up on the situation too bad.
The point is to get rid of all the TV commercials that accompany those pitching changes. That will only happen by getting rid of some of them altogether, not by shortening their duration. They are not going to abandon that potential ad revenue unless the potential itself disappears.

“If you don’t like the effects, don’t produce the cause.”
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  #32  
Old 02-06-2019, 08:45 PM
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Raise the mound. Expand the strike zone. Eliminate the designated hitter.


You could even go back to actually throwing four pitchouts for an intentional walk and the game would still move at a faster pace.
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  #33  
Old 02-06-2019, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TDog
Raise the mound. Expand the strike zone. Eliminate the designated hitter.


You could even go back to actually throwing four pitchouts for an intentional walk and the game would still move at a faster pace.
If a league batting average of .246 is too low for some (and a K-rate of over 22% is too high), I shudder to think of what would happen if these changes take place. There would be rioting in the streets!
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  #34  
Old 02-06-2019, 09:51 PM
Railsplitter Railsplitter is offline
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Raise the mound. Expand the strike zone. Eliminate the designated hitter.
I'm with you on all three. I'd settle for the mound being halfway between the current height and the 1968 level.
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  #35  
Old 02-06-2019, 10:16 PM
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If a league batting average of .246 is too low for some (and a K-rate of over 22% is too high), I shudder to think of what would happen if these changes take place. There would be rioting in the streets!

Enforce a bigger strike zone, and you would have fewer players taking pitches they can hit early in the count. Make the players swing and walks will cease to be an offensive weapon. There would be fewer strikeouts and more balls put into play.

Bring an end to the three-outcome hitter, and you create more action. The game moves at a better pace because outs would be quicker with more strikes. Outs are to baseball what a time on a clock is to other sports. If you want to increase the pace of the game, you're going to have to get hitters to swing more frequently and be penalized for not swinging more frequently.
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  #36  
Old 02-06-2019, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TDog
Enforce a bigger strike zone, and you would have fewer players taking pitches they can hit early in the count. Make the players swing and walks will cease to be an offensive weapon. There would be fewer strikeouts and more balls put into play.

Bring an end to the three-outcome hitter, and you create more action. The game moves at a better pace because outs would be quicker with more strikes. Outs are to baseball what a time on a clock is to other sports. If you want to increase the pace of the game, you're going to have to get hitters to swing more frequently and be penalized for not swinging more frequently.
Pitches to hit? If I’m pitching, why would I ever give hitters pitches they can hit? With a bigger zone and a higher mound, I’m throwing more pitches outside the zone than ever before to try and get them to chase. The only pitches to hit would be mistakes. There wouldn’t be more balls in play; there would just be even more swinging strikes.
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  #37  
Old 02-06-2019, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Enforce a bigger strike zone, and you would have fewer players taking pitches they can hit early in the count. Make the players swing and walks will cease to be an offensive weapon. There would be fewer strikeouts and more balls put into play.

Bring an end to the three-outcome hitter, and you create more action. The game moves at a better pace because outs would be quicker with more strikes. Outs are to baseball what a time on a clock is to other sports. If you want to increase the pace of the game, you're going to have to get hitters to swing more frequently and be penalized for not swinging more frequently.
A lot of assumptions going into this argument. You might just see guys striking out a lot more as they still swing from the heels trying to drive something because pitchers aren't suddenly going to stop throwing 95+ and with a higher mound it will be even more effective. The odds on stringing several hits together goes down, not up and you'll end up with even more all or nothing and a LOT more nothing if that all comes to pass.
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  #38  
Old 02-06-2019, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile
A lot of assumptions going into this argument. You might just see guys striking out a lot more as they still swing from the heels trying to drive something because pitchers aren't suddenly going to stop throwing 95+ and with a higher mound it will be even more effective. The odds on stringing several hits together goes down, not up and you'll end up with even more all or nothing and a LOT more nothing if that all comes to pass.
Yup. Contact will become more scarce, so more total bases will need to be earned with whatever contact is made.

The only way to steer hitters away from the “extra-base hit or bust” mindset is to somehow raise the value of singles relative to extra-base hits. That relative value would need to rise to such a level as to make more hitters actively pursue singles as desired outcomes of their plate appearances rather than as consolation prizes that sometimes come out of failed extra-base-hit attempts.

How can this happen? I have no idea, but implementing a less-lively baseball and moving back fences are two ideas that make a lot of sense. For some hitters, those changes would eliminate the temptation to swing for the fences, since they would no longer have hope of ever clearing those fences.
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  #39  
Old 02-07-2019, 12:19 AM
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A lot of assumptions going into this argument. You might just see guys striking out a lot more as they still swing from the heels trying to drive something because pitchers aren't suddenly going to stop throwing 95+ and with a higher mound it will be even more effective. The odds on stringing several hits together goes down, not up and you'll end up with even more all or nothing and a LOT more nothing if that all comes to pass.
What slows down the game, what kills the pace of the game is walks. You have to make it more difficult for players to walk if you want to speed up the game. A bigger strike zone doesn't allow hitters to patiently wait for the pitch where they can get their optimum exit velocity and launch angle. It gives the pitchers a better chance of working hitters to keep them off balance. Now the consequence of waiting for what appears to be your prime pitch is minimized because hitters who don't swing have a good chance of walking.

Today the strike zone is smaller than it's ever been, and there are more strikeouts than there have ever been. That isn't an anomalous coincidence. Warren Spahn didn't have to strike out hitters to get them out. Neither did Wilbur Wood or Mark Buehrle because he was able to use the smaller strike zone he had. And they pitched a lot of innings. Successful pitching to contact isn't a matter of luck.

Expand the strike zone and hitters would adjust. Pitchers would adjust. There would be more chances in the field. I don't think Mike Trout would strike out more often if he had to face the strike zone Willie Mays had to face.
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  #40  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:32 AM
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Raise the mound. Expand the strike zone. Eliminate the designated hitter.


You could even go back to actually throwing four pitchouts for an intentional walk and the game would still move at a faster pace.
Maybe we should go back to having all daytime games, too.
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  #41  
Old 02-07-2019, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
If a league batting average of .246 is too low for some (and a K-rate of over 22% is too high), I shudder to think of what would happen if these changes take place. There would be rioting in the streets!
For those of need of a visceral rush I suggest video games.

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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
The point is to get rid of all the TV commercials that accompany those pitching changes. That will only happen by getting rid of some of them altogether, not by shortening their duration. They are not going to abandon that potential ad revenue unless the potential itself disappears.

“If you don’t like the effects, don’t produce the cause.”
The "cause" is part of the game. The time ads run between pitching changes is something that marketeers and MLB can discuss.
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  #42  
Old 02-07-2019, 05:17 AM
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Maybe we should go back to having all daytime games, too.
Yes! And make men wear top hats! And for a promotion, we can have monocle day!
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  #43  
Old 02-07-2019, 06:17 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is online now
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The emphasis on optimizing launch angle and exit velocity in order to hit for extra bases is a logical, rational, empirical response to an era in which...

1. More pitchers than ever can throw 95+ MPH fastballs, and teams are loading up their bullpens with as many of them as possible; and

2. Teams are using data - spray charts - to position fielders to turn as many batted balls as possible into outs;

3. Outfield fences generally are closer to home plate, and foul territories are smaller (to bring fans closer to the action) in today’s baseball-only parks compared to the 1960s/1970s cookie cutter multipurpose stadia.

Raising the mound will only exacerbate the three outcome trend while also further lowering scoring by giving pitchers an even bigger advantage.
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  #44  
Old 02-07-2019, 08:44 AM
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But why still have separate leagues? There's no difference between them anymore if this comes to pass.
For the same reasons that there were separate leagues before 1973 when the American League adopted the DH.
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  #45  
Old 02-07-2019, 11:06 AM
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Well there are solutions for that including the shorter 5-day DL suggested above. If a team has a lot of pitchers developing cramps during the season MLB can look into it.

Heck you could even make it a 3-day ineligible to pitch thing. That would tighten the screws on any bullpen and make them think twice about faking things.
...but what about pitchers who go out there and honestly feel some vague twinge or something after his first batter? Instead of playing it safe and telling the manager or trainer, are they forced to tough it out and risk an injury or face what is essentially a 3-game suspension? I can't imagine the MLBPA ever going for something like that.

That's not to say there aren't ways to possibly make this proposal work. Perhaps limit teams to one such injury-after-one-batter claim per game? Also, perhaps have a 3-batters minimum rule as long as the pitcher is recording outs? ........I'm just spit balling here and these suggestions aren't fully vetted.
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