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  #46  
Old 09-12-2019, 12:29 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
That's assuming it's badly invested...

Too soon to judge the MM contract, but currently I'm OK the Sox didn't pull the trigger.

Merrifield at age 31 for a 22 year old with similar profile? Pass. I'm down to trade Cease for Thor, only if they can extend him. Keep Kopech, he's a Strasburg/Thor himself if he comes back healthy and I'm willing to take that chance.

That would be fine defensively. But, Puig just doesn't make sense anymore, as he isn't that good offensively, especially for a multi-year deal. That one could look ugly immediately. The Sox should be trying to diversify their lineup at least a bit, have way too many players with his profile already and have for the last decade.
That is how much it costs in terms of prospects to acquire proven performers. That is why you build a kick-ass farm system. You keep the crown jewels of it for yourself (like Moncada, Eloy, and Robert), and you use the rest of it to acquire the rest of the top-end talent you need sooner rather than later.

Either that, or you commit to 2020 as the final development year. I'm fine either way.

What I'm not fine with is going into 2020 with a half-assed patchwork quilt after adding guys like Zack Wheeler or Hunter Pence or Mike Moustakas, re-signing Abreu, and trying to pass that off as legitimate spending to augment a core. If any of those guys are desirable as ancillary pieces, fine by me, but we need to come out of free agency with the goods.

Like many have said in this thread, this team needs to pay full freight for a marquee rotation piece. Since I don't think it will be Cole, I'm hoping for MadBum as the next-best thing. If you would rather have Marcell Ozuna than Puig, fine by me, but this team needs to add a thumper to play RF. I figure Puig would cost less than Ozuna, and Puig would not require a position switch. Flipping 7 years of Madrigal for 4 years of Merrifield and flipping 6 years of Cease or Kopech for 2 years of Thor are putting 2020 in play as a championship-caliber season, and we still get to keep Andrew Vaughn.

It's time to decide what the approach will be and use the rest of September accordingly. Going with Mendick instead of Leury, going with Zavala instead of Castillo, and replacing Yolmer with another $600K player on the bench will recoup a nice chunk of payroll. The Alonso/Jay/Nova money dropping off the books will recoup even more. Figure that retaining Abreu would be neutral cost-wise, and the money should be there for 2020. For 2021 and beyond, help ease that crunch by front-loading the free agent contracts.
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  #47  
Old 09-12-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
That is how much it costs in terms of prospects to acquire proven performers. That is why you build a kick-ass farm system. You keep the crown jewels of it for yourself (like Moncada, Eloy, and Robert), and you use the rest of it to acquire the rest of the top-end talent you need sooner rather than later.

Either that, or you commit to 2020 as the final development year. I'm fine either way.

What I'm not fine with is going into 2020 with a half-assed patchwork quilt after adding guys like Zack Wheeler or Hunter Pence or Mike Moustakas, re-signing Abreu, and trying to pass that off as legitimate spending to augment a core. If any of those guys are desirable as ancillary pieces, fine by me, but we need to come out of free agency with the goods.

Like many have said in this thread, this team needs to pay full freight for a marquee rotation piece. Since I don't think it will be Cole, I'm hoping for MadBum as the next-best thing. If you would rather have Marcell Ozuna than Puig, fine by me, but this team needs to add a thumper to play RF. I figure Puig would cost less than Ozuna, and Puig would not require a position switch. Flipping 7 years of Madrigal for 4 years of Merrifield and flipping 6 years of Cease or Kopech for 2 years of Thor are putting 2020 in play as a championship-caliber season, and we still get to keep Andrew Vaughn.

It's time to decide what the approach will be and use the rest of September accordingly. Going with Mendick instead of Leury, going with Zavala instead of Castillo, and replacing Yolmer with another $600K player on the bench will recoup a nice chunk of payroll. The Alonso/Jay/Nova money dropping off the books will recoup even more. Figure that retaining Abreu would be neutral cost-wise, and the money should be there for 2020. For 2021 and beyond, help ease that crunch by front-loading the free agent contracts.
This is an excellent, thoughtful post. I don't agree with everything you've suggested, but I appreciate your insight and reasoning.
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  #48  
Old 09-12-2019, 01:25 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
That is how much it costs in terms of prospects to acquire proven performers. That is why you build a kick-ass farm system. You keep the crown jewels of it for yourself (like Moncada, Eloy, and Robert), and you use the rest of it to acquire the rest of the top-end talent you need sooner rather than later.

Either that, or you commit to 2020 as the final development year. I'm fine either way.

What I'm not fine with is going into 2020 with a half-assed patchwork quilt after adding guys like Zack Wheeler or Hunter Pence or Mike Moustakas, re-signing Abreu, and trying to pass that off as legitimate spending to augment a core. If any of those guys are desirable as ancillary pieces, fine by me, but we need to come out of free agency with the goods.

Like many have said in this thread, this team needs to pay full freight for a marquee rotation piece. Since I don't think it will be Cole, I'm hoping for MadBum as the next-best thing. If you would rather have Marcell Ozuna than Puig, fine by me, but this team needs to add a thumper to play RF. I figure Puig would cost less than Ozuna, and Puig would not require a position switch. Flipping 7 years of Madrigal for 4 years of Merrifield and flipping 6 years of Cease or Kopech for 2 years of Thor are putting 2020 in play as a championship-caliber season, and we still get to keep Andrew Vaughn.

It's time to decide what the approach will be and use the rest of September accordingly. Going with Mendick instead of Leury, going with Zavala instead of Castillo, and replacing Yolmer with another $600K player on the bench will recoup a nice chunk of payroll. The Alonso/Jay/Nova money dropping off the books will recoup even more. Figure that retaining Abreu would be neutral cost-wise, and the money should be there for 2020. For 2021 and beyond, help ease that crunch by front-loading the free agent contracts.
Not sure where you thought I said these players wouldn't cost that, as I know Syndergaard and Merrifield are costly acquisitions.

It doesn't have to be a half-assed 2020 or straight up rebuild year. You can add pieces that will be around during the WS window, while letting Eloy, Robert, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, Madrigal grow as MLB players next year. Some of them will break out next season, and they will help Anderson, Moncada, Abreu, Giolito, and whatever FA/trade additions win a lot of games in 2020. It very likely won't be a WS contender, but the breakout season before a true contender in 2021.

Also if you truly think that Hahn sold Jerry on this rebuild, execute it to this point with a wealth of young talent, try to spend $250-350 mil last year on one player, only to go out and half-ass it and sign a Hunter Pence as a final piece; you've been hanging out in the "Rick Hahn Haters" thread too much.

Puig or Ozuna I think would even fall under your half-assed approach too. Ozuna had one great year, and 5 other very pedestrian years. He doesn't even play that great of D. Also, Ozuna just said his priority is being back in St. Louis next year.

It's also very easy for people in these threads to yell "Sign Cole or Bumgarner or else!", when literally every other team needs them too. Yes, the Sox have the money, and will definitely be talking to these players, but ultimately it's up to the players to decide where to go. Other teams will have a lot of money to spend and be just as desperate, if not more so, for pitching. Syndergaard might ultimately be the best option, though it ONLY makes sense if he signs an extension.
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  #49  
Old 09-12-2019, 02:27 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Trades are definitely going to be a factor. As timid as the Sox have been on the FA market, they have been willing to swing big trades for star players like Bartolo Colon, Jake Peavy, and Jim Thome. I wouldn't be shocked if trade is how they swing their next #1 pitcher, either over the summer or at the 2020 deadline.

The Sox have the flexibility to take other team's unwanted payroll off of them.
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  #50  
Old 09-12-2019, 02:57 PM
Camilo, carry-on Camilo, carry-on is offline
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As I stated before on another thread, this is the off season to trade Tim Anderson. With each passing season it's becomes clearer that TA will probably never be a quality defensive shortstop. And, it's unlikely he'll hit .330 again, so sell high.

I would try to package Anderson and two or more of the 2nd tier prospects like Rutherford, Basabe, L.Gonzalez. Sheets and Walker for a starting pitcher. I don't think TA and the others will bring a number 1 or 2, but it might bring a solid number 3.

If The White Sox hope to sniff at .500 in 2020, they'll need to significantly improve their starting rotation.
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  #51  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:09 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Camilo, carry-on View Post
As I stated before on another thread, this is the off season to trade Tim Anderson. With each passing season it's becomes clearer that TA will probably never be a quality defensive shortstop. And, it's unlikely he'll hit .330 again, so sell high.

I would try to package Anderson and two or more of the 2nd tier prospects like Rutherford, Basabe, L.Gonzalez. Sheets and Walker for a starting pitcher. I don't think TA and the others will bring a number 1 or 2, but it might bring a solid number 3.

If The White Sox hope to sniff at .500 in 2020, they'll need to significantly improve their starting rotation.
I think you're underestimating TA's trade value. Should be able to get a #2 straight up. And I hope they are open to dealing him if it improves the club.

But then it's either Leury or Yolmer at short.
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  #52  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:10 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camilo, carry-on View Post
As I stated before on another thread, this is the off season to trade Tim Anderson. With each passing season it's becomes clearer that TA will probably never be a quality defensive shortstop. And, it's unlikely he'll hit .330 again, so sell high.

I would try to package Anderson and two or more of the 2nd tier prospects like Rutherford, Basabe, L.Gonzalez. Sheets and Walker for a starting pitcher. I don't think TA and the others will bring a number 1 or 2, but it might bring a solid number 3.

If The White Sox hope to sniff at .500 in 2020, they'll need to significantly improve their starting rotation.
I love when people say a guy isnít capable of performing at the same level he has consistently been on over an entire season. The guy is literally just entering his prime at 26 for a whole half season more next year. To say he canít improve anything is ludicrous.
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  #53  
Old 09-12-2019, 04:01 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camilo, carry-on View Post
As I stated before on another thread, this is the off season to trade Tim Anderson. With each passing season it's becomes clearer that TA will probably never be a quality defensive shortstop. And, it's unlikely he'll hit .330 again, so sell high.

I would try to package Anderson and two or more of the 2nd tier prospects like Rutherford, Basabe, L.Gonzalez. Sheets and Walker for a starting pitcher. I don't think TA and the others will bring a number 1 or 2, but it might bring a solid number 3.

If The White Sox hope to sniff at .500 in 2020, they'll need to significantly improve their starting rotation.
If you are looking for a solid number 3, why wouldn't you just go sign Odorizzi and not give up anything?

As far as trading Anderson because he likely won't hit .330 again.... no thanks.
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  #54  
Old 09-12-2019, 04:15 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Also if you truly think that Hahn sold Jerry on this rebuild, execute it to this point with a wealth of young talent, try to spend $250-350 mil last year on one player, only to go out and half-ass it and sign a Hunter Pence as a final piece; you've been hanging out in the "Rick Hahn Haters" thread too much.
It's not Rick Hahn who worries me. It's the miser who signs his paychecks.
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  #55  
Old 09-12-2019, 04:26 PM
hoosiersoxfan hoosiersoxfan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camilo, carry-on View Post
As I stated before on another thread, this is the off season to trade Tim Anderson. With each passing season it's becomes clearer that TA will probably never be a quality defensive shortstop. And, it's unlikely he'll hit .330 again, so sell high.

I would try to package Anderson and two or more of the 2nd tier prospects like Rutherford, Basabe, L.Gonzalez. Sheets and Walker for a starting pitcher. I don't think TA and the others will bring a number 1 or 2, but it might bring a solid number 3.

If The White Sox hope to sniff at .500 in 2020, they'll need to significantly improve their starting rotation.
Or just keep their assets and actually sign a solid number 3 starter
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  #56  
Old 09-12-2019, 05:05 PM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
It's not Rick Hahn who worries me. It's the miser who signs his paychecks.
That is really what it boils down to. There is no savior-GM coming over the horizon to rescue the Sox as long as their spending habits remain the same.
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  #57  
Old 09-12-2019, 05:28 PM
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It's not Rick Hahn who worries me. It's the miser who signs his paychecks.
Oakland and Tampa bay have misers who sign paychecks too.
It's Rick Hahn and crew that worry me.
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  #58  
Old 09-12-2019, 05:32 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Oakland and Tampa bay have misers who sign paychecks too.
It's Rick Hahn and crew that worry me.
Neither team has won a World Series, and pinching pennies is a major cause of that lack of success.
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  #59  
Old 09-12-2019, 05:51 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Neither team has won a World Series, and pinching pennies is a major cause of that lack of success.
They are competitive.
The White Sox (under Hahn) are not. Too many contrivances and dog-and-pony shows and too little serious baseball work.
Perhaps "competitive" is the ceiling given JR. Let's get to that ceiling.
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  #60  
Old 09-12-2019, 05:55 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
It's not Rick Hahn who worries me. It's the miser who signs his paychecks.
OK... so you think Jerry won't approve contracts now that are $150-200 mil less than what they were willing to pay last winter?
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