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[chicagowhitesox1]

Originally Posted by spawn

Well,yes, Negro Leaguers have a right to be upset. I don't dispute that at all. My issue with you is you saying Jackie Robinson snubbed his nose at other black baseball players, and you have yet to provide proof of this.

As far as Josh Gibson goes...the man died in January, 1947, before Robinson broke into the majors. Are you saying he was snubbed by Jackie from his grave?

I obviously wouldn't say that but Josh Gibson really wanted to be the first Negro League player to break the barrier but baseball waited until they found the right man which Robinson obviously was but at the same time is it really right to pick Robinson over Gibson. Gibson was going to be called up in the early 40's but baseball decided to pass on him. Jackie Robinson never payed very much respect to those veteran Negro Leaguers. Maybe because he figured they were jealous of him and maybe Robinson didn't realize he was slightng them but alot of those guys did feel slighted. It's kinda like how a guy at work gets a promotion and everyone is clapping their hands for him but in the background they are saying he didn't deserve this.

[happydude]

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

I obviously wouldn't say that but Josh Gibson really wanted to be the first Negro League player to break the barrier but baseball waited until they found the right man which Robinson obviously was but at the same time is it really right to pick Robinson over Gibson. Gibson was going to be called up in the early 40's but baseball decided to pass on him. Jackie Robinson never payed very much respect to those veteran Negro Leaguers. Maybe because he figured they were jealous of him and maybe Robinson didn't realize he was slightng them but alot of those guys did feel slighted. It's kinda like how a guy at work gets a promotion and everyone is clapping their hands for him but in the background they are saying he didn't deserve this.

Its possible that you're correct. However, if this is true it only serves to provide further justification to the selection of Robinson over these other players. The inability, or unwillingness, to derive joy from the successes of others can be a reflection of selfishness or immaturity; the very type of character traits that may have resulted in the type of incident or conduct that the "fist black ballplayer" needed to avoid during the early years of integration.

[chicagowhitesox1]

Originally Posted by happydude

Its possible that you're correct. However, if this is true it only serves to provide further justification to the selection of Robinson over these other players. The inability, or unwillingness, to derive joy from the successes of others can be a reflection of selfishness or immaturity; the very type of character traits that may have resulted in the type of incident or conduct that the "fist black ballplayer" needed to avoid during the early years of integration.

True but these guys from the Negro Leagues endured alot too and instead of MLB bringing in one of their own, they went with a guy who wasn't in the inner circle of the Negro Leagues. If I was them I would feel angry about that. Jackie Robinson was getting all the accolades and fame while these guys had to be standup guys and give interviews praising Robinson while basiacally being ignored by the general public. I find alot of them just as honorable if not more honorable.

[spawn]

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

I obviously wouldn't say that but Josh Gibson really wanted to be the first Negro League player to break the barrier but baseball waited until they found the right man which Robinson obviously was but at the same time is it really right to pick Robinson over Gibson.

You're asking, and keep asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is why Robinson was picked over Gibson. And the answer has nothing to do with who the better player was. You keep missing that point! And you keep saying MLB brought Jackie up. It wasn't the league. It was Rickey, and at almost the same time, it was Veeck in the AL.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall here. I'm done.

[jdm2662]

Originally Posted by spawn

I agree. He should be recognized more. He broke in only a few weeks after Robinson. Unfortunately, I think the reason he's not given more recognition is because he didn't have the success Robinson had, and he played in Cleveland. Had he played for the Red Sox or the Giants, I'm sure it would've been a different story. He did go through the same abuse as Jackie, but he only played in 29 games, and didn't have much of an impact for the team his rookie season. Robinson won the inaugural Rookie of the Year award.

Yeah, when I looked it up yesterday, I saw he was just a bench player his rookie season. With Jackie being the Rookie of the Year and playing every day, I can see why he got all the attention. But, Doby shouldn't be completely forgotten. It seems he's only remembered in Cleveland. I know they've honored him quite a bit.

[chicagowhitesox1]

Originally Posted by spawn

You're asking, and keep asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is why Robinson was picked over Gibson. And the answer has nothing to do with who the better player was. You keep missing that point! And you keep saying MLB brought Jackie up. It wasn't the league. It was Rickey, and at almost the same time, it was Veeck in the AL.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall here. I'm done.

I feel like i'm banging my head against the wall with you. I say MLB because Happy Chandler who was the commisioner played a huge role in letting blacks play. If it wasn't for Chandler, Robinson wouldn't have played in 1947. The movie portrayed Chandler as some goof which was way off. I'm guessing thats why your giving Branch Rickey so much credit.

[spawn]

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

I feel like i'm banging my head against the wall with you. I say MLB because Happy Chandler who was the commisioner played a huge role in letting blacks play. If it wasn't for Chandler, Robinson wouldn't have played in 1947. The movie portrayed Chandler as some goof which was way off. I'm guessing thats why your giving Branch Rickey so much credit.

Chandler indeed played a role in allowing blacks to play as Landis did everything in his power to keep the game white. He didn't choose which black player would break the color barrier. That was Rickey. So to say MLB chose Robinson over all of the other black players available just sounds ridiculous.

And I'm still waiting on you to provide proof that Robinson snubbed other black players.

[RKMeibalane]

Originally Posted by spawn

Chandler indeed played a role in allowing blacks to play as Landis did everything in his power to keep the game white. He didn't choose which black player would break the color barrier. That was Rickey. So to say MLB chose Robinson over all of the other black players available just sounds ridiculous.

And I'm still waiting on you to provide proof that Robinson snubbed other black players.

[chicagowhitesox1]

Originally Posted by spawn

Chandler indeed played a role in allowing blacks to play as Landis did everything in his power to keep the game white. He didn't choose which black player would break the color barrier. That was Rickey. So to say MLB chose Robinson over all of the other black players available just sounds ridiculous.

And I'm still waiting on you to provide proof that Robinson snubbed other black players.

Your giving Branch Rickey 100 percent credit for this and thats a totally wrong. I'm just saying MLB because i'm not giving Branch Rickey 100 percent credit for allowing Jackie Robinson into baseball. I know you know that there was alot more going on behind the scenes to give Branch Rickey credit like that. Actually Rickey voted no to keep Robinson out I think in 1946 but Chandler intervined. That movie went a little in making Rickey into some sort of saint. In reality it wasn't realy like that.

I can try and find some sort proof on the snubbing deal but when I did searches nothing came up. You'd have to read books about the Negro Leagues.

[Red Barchetta]

I took my 12 year-old son to see it on Sunday. Overall, I thought it was really good, but as others mentioned, very scripted. Some scenes really made old Florida look bad!

Funniest part was after the movie when my son asked, "Was that Han Solo?"

[RKMeibalane]

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

I can try and find some sort proof on the snubbing deal but when I did searches nothing came up. You'd have to read books about the Negro Leagues.

This entire place is starting to reek of horse****.

[spawn]

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

Your giving Branch Rickey 100 percent credit for this and thats a totally wrong. I'm just saying MLB because i'm not giving Branch Rickey 100 percent credit for allowing Jackie Robinson into baseball. I know you know that there was alot more going on behind the scenes to give Branch Rickey credit like that. Actually Rickey voted no to keep Robinson out I think in 1946 but Chandler intervined. That movie went a little in making Rickey into some sort of saint. In reality it wasn't realy like that.

I don't think I've made Rickey into a saint at all. The bottom line is, Rickey probably saw more dollars at the gate, black people spending their money, to watch blacks play baseball. And I've never said Rickey was 100% responsible for Robinson breaking the color barrier. I'm giving Ricky credit for the player chosen to integrate the league. You seem to be giving MLB the credit. And you said Rickey voted to keep Robinson out in '46? He signed Robinson to a minor league contract in '45. Why would he then vote to keep him out in '46? That makes absolutely no sense. Do you have proof? You keep making these outlandish statements, but have nothing to back them up.

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

I can try and find some sort proof on the snubbing deal but when I did searches nothing came up. You'd have to read books about the Negro Leagues.

So you have no proof then. You make the statement, but want me to prove it for you. Yeah...ok.

[spawn]

Originally Posted by Red Barchetta

I took my 12 year-old son to see it on Sunday. Overall, I thought it was really good, but as others mentioned, very scripted. Some scenes really made old Florida look bad!

Funniest part was after the movie when my son asked, "Was that Han Solo?"

Just glad he didn't ask if Robinson was Chewbacca.

[RKMeibalane]

Originally Posted by spawn

So you have no proof then. You make the statement, but want me to prove it for you. Yeah...ok.

This reminds me of the time my boss wanted several of my colleagues and me to attend a workshop. He told us that it was our responsibility to arrange time off, find transportation, pay for the conference, etc. I said, "So, you're mandating this, but we're doing all of the heavy lifting?"

He said, "Why would I need to help you with any of it?"

I didn't respond.

[RKMeibalane]

Originally Posted by spawn

Just glad he didn't ask if Robinson was Chewbacca.

I was thinking more along the lines of Lando Calrissian.