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  #31  
Old 08-07-2018, 04:17 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Because of his callup with the Red Sox, if Moncada was sent to AAA this year, we stand a 99% chance of losing him to waivers. Same with Giolito. This is why these guys are up here doing their developmental work this season and not at Charlotte being the subject of "call him up now!!!" threads. Neither of these guys is a finished product yet.
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  #32  
Old 08-07-2018, 04:20 PM
eriqjaffe eriqjaffe is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
But I think the short answer is that the Sox currently have no logical better option than Moncada as their lead off man against RHP -- which is sad.
I was under the impression that they're batting him leadoff specifically to get him as many reps as possible this year, not because he's the best option.
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  #33  
Old 08-07-2018, 04:59 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry
Because of his callup with the Red Sox, if Moncada was sent to AAA this year, we stand a 99% chance of losing him to waivers. Same with Giolito. This is why these guys are up here doing their developmental work this season and not at Charlotte being the subject of "call him up now!!!" threads. Neither of these guys is a finished product yet.
Yoan Moncada has two options remaining. Lucas Giolito has one option remaining. Neither player would have been exposed to waivers. They started the season with the White Sox because the White Sox thought they were ready for the majors.
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  #34  
Old 08-07-2018, 05:15 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Its crazy to waste an option on moncada this year. Next year is a different story. Give him a couple months to start off the season and if he stinks it up like this year put him down. Next year will be another awful year and maybe that will wake him up.
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  #35  
Old 08-07-2018, 05:25 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Most of here know that the guy is K machine but why on earth hasn't the Front Office figured it out and get him the hell out of the leadoff spot.
Was he brought up too early last year, maybe.
Way back before his decline started, he was an island of OBP in a team lacking same, and he can run, so leading off had some logic to it. Errors be damned, he is fielding better now. Good Lord, I have the feeling I'm describing Beckham!
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  #36  
Old 08-07-2018, 05:47 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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There seems to be a lot of confusion about this, so here is a handy list of current White Sox players with fewer than five years of service time and no minor league options remaining:

Leury Garcia
Yolmer Sanchez
Matt Davidson
Luis Avilan
Xavier Cedeno

Here is a list of current White Sox players who have 5+ years of service time and can refuse an optional assignment even if any of their option years were not used:

Hector Santiago
Jeannar Gomez
James Shields
Nate Jones

Finally, here is a list of current White Sox players who can be optioned in 2018:

Dylan Covey (2018 is already an option year)
Tyler Danish
Jace Fry (2018 is already an option year)
Lucas Giolito
Reynaldo Lopez
Juan Minaya (2018 is already an option year)
Carlos Rodon
Thyago Vieira (2018 is already an option year)
Omar Narvaez
Kevan Smith (2018 is already an option year)
Jose Abreu
Tim Anderson
Yoan Moncada
Adam Engel
Avisail Garcia
Nicky Delmonico
Ryan LaMarre (2018 is already an option year)
Daniel Palka (2018 is already an option year)
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  #37  
Old 08-07-2018, 06:56 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Yoan Moncada has two options remaining. Lucas Giolito has one option remaining. Neither player would have been exposed to waivers. They started the season with the White Sox because the White Sox thought they were ready for the majors.

Exactly. Fulmer on the same boat, yet he was immediately shipped down to Charlotte when he struggled.
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  #38  
Old 08-07-2018, 07:09 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Its crazy to waste an option on moncada this year. Next year is a different story. Give him a couple months to start off the season and if he stinks it up like this year put him down. Next year will be another awful year and maybe that will wake him up.

If he stinks it up out of the gate and into June next season again then you are truly looking at a possible bust, no matter the options.



I think a lot of the White Sox angst right now from the fans is seeing that out of Anderson, Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, and Fulmer not one guy is close to being a ML star right now. No matter how deep you are looking down in the farm 1 - 30, you need guys to establish themselves quickly at the ML level. Competitive windows are very small in this game. Just ask the Royals. You can't wait for guys to finally figure things out 3 to 4 years down the line. Hell, we are in year 5 of the Avisail Garcia experiment and still can't figure out what he is. And that's just one guy. Imagine trying to figure out 15 of these guys here shortly.
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  #39  
Old 08-07-2018, 07:33 PM
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IronFisk IronFisk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Correct, we still have good prospects in Kopech and Basabe and it's still way to early on Moncada.
I don't agree. He needs to start showing promise. Just for fun here is a random list of top prospects after their first full season:

Frank Thomas - .318
Konerko - .294
Ventura - .249
Kris Bryant - .275
Jose Altuve - .290
Will Clark - .287
Mike Trout - .326
Ryne Sandberg - .271
Carlos Beltran - .293
Cal Ripken - .264
Manny Machado - .283
Joe Crede - .261

MONCADA this year - .220

These are blue chip names I've picked out, and Yoan should be in this vicinity...at Ventura's level at the very least. The fact that he isn't is very troubling at this point in his first full season.
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  #40  
Old 08-07-2018, 07:53 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by IronFisk View Post
I don't agree. He needs to start showing promise. Just for fun here is a random list of top prospects after their first full season:

Frank Thomas - .318
Konerko - .294
Ventura - .249
Kris Bryant - .275
Jose Altuve - .290
Will Clark - .287
Mike Trout - .326
Ryne Sandberg - .271
Carlos Beltran - .293
Cal Ripken - .264
Manny Machado - .283
Joe Crede - .261

MONCADA this year - .220

These are blue chip names I've picked out, and Yoan should be in this vicinity...at Ventura's level at the very least. The fact that he isn't is very troubling at this point in his first full season.
I still say we have to give him 1 more year, if he shows no improvement next year then the rebuild will need some changes.
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  #41  
Old 08-07-2018, 08:12 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
If he stinks it up out of the gate and into June next season again then you are truly looking at a possible bust, no matter the options.





Yes thats why you bury him with his 32m in the minors to see if he can figure it out.
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  #42  
Old 08-08-2018, 09:59 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFisk View Post
I don't agree. He needs to start showing promise. Just for fun here is a random list of top prospects after their first full season:


Ventura - .249

MONCADA this year - .220

These are blue chip names I've picked out, and Yoan should be in this vicinity...at Ventura's level at the very least. The fact that he isn't is very troubling at this point in his first full season.
He is. One more hit every 7-10 days would have given him a BA close to Ventura's. I'm pretty sure this puts him within the Standard Deviation of Robin.
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  #43  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:21 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
If he stinks it up out of the gate and into June next season again then you are truly looking at a possible bust, no matter the options.



I think a lot of the White Sox angst right now from the fans is seeing that out of Anderson, Moncada, Giolito, Lopez, and Fulmer not one guy is close to being a ML star right now. No matter how deep you are looking down in the farm 1 - 30, you need guys to establish themselves quickly at the ML level. Competitive windows are very small in this game. Just ask the Royals. You can't wait for guys to finally figure things out 3 to 4 years down the line. Hell, we are in year 5 of the Avisail Garcia experiment and still can't figure out what he is. And that's just one guy. Imagine trying to figure out 15 of these guys here shortly.
I would have expected at least one to assert himself and another to show that he is definitely getting there. To me that would have been an acceptable minimum bottom line. The Sox are for the moment 0 for 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFisk View Post
I don't agree. He needs to start showing promise. Just for fun here is a random list of top prospects after their first full season:

Frank Thomas - .318
Konerko - .294
Ventura - .249
Kris Bryant - .275
Jose Altuve - .290
Will Clark - .287
Mike Trout - .326
Ryne Sandberg - .271
Carlos Beltran - .293
Cal Ripken - .264
Manny Machado - .283
Joe Crede - .261

MONCADA this year - .220

These are blue chip names I've picked out, and Yoan should be in this vicinity...at Ventura's level at the very least. The fact that he isn't is very troubling at this point in his first full season.
Yes it is very troubling. Some guys do struggle, even mightily and become stars but more of them hit the ground running and establish themselves very early. I'm always willing to give pitchers more time, but for a position player to start off this badly is not a good sign.

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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
He is. One more hit every 7-10 days would have given him a BA close to Ventura's. I'm pretty sure this puts him within the Standard Deviation of Robin.
I would have to say that your idea and mine of what constitutes the "vicinity" are not quite the same. Moncada isn't even in the vicinity of the lowest end of this spectrum and one Standard Deviation can be as high as 34 percentage points.
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