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  #16  
Old 08-19-2018, 11:47 AM
fungo bat fungo bat is offline
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In my opinion Rentaria is simply a placeholder. When the time comes JR will give him some front office position or possibly put him to work as an advance scout, maybe even a bench coach for a year or so. Vizquel is the manager in waiting for the White Sox. Once this team turns the corner he'll take over the reins with KW and company keeping a close eye on him. Cooper? Not sure what his future is with the White Sox.
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  #17  
Old 08-19-2018, 12:26 PM
asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Iím coming around to the idea that in most cases, over the long term, the manager actually has little effect on how the team performs, particularly on the upside. If I had to guess at numbers I would guess:

70% of the time a manager has negligible effect (plus or minus 2 or fewer wins compared to Pythagorean W-L) on a given teamís success;
20% of the time a manager can hurt a teamís success, sometimes in ways that we donít yet have the metrics to quantify;
10% of the time a manager can help a teamís success more than 2 wins over Pythagorean W-L.

Maybe my numbers are off, but I stand by the idea until I see data that proves otherwise.

I think talent and player performance is far more important. Over his managerial career, Ventura was -1 compared to Pythagorean W-L. He was mediocre; his impact was negligible.
It is and always has been, in all sports.
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  #18  
Old 08-19-2018, 12:35 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
It is and always has been, in all sports.
I think coaches in baseball are even more neutral than most other sports, too. One coach’s offensive or defensive scheme can change the way the game is played in basketball or football, not so much in baseball.

I’ve always thought that a manager’s biggest impact was in the clubhouse and figuring out how to play his players to their strengths and put them in a position to succeed, but my unscientific opinion has always been that given the exact same team, the swing from the very best manager to the very worst is probably no more than 4 or 5 games.
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  #19  
Old 08-19-2018, 12:43 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo
Iím coming around to the idea that in most cases, over the long term, the manager actually has little effect on how the team performs, particularly on the upside. If I had to guess at numbers I would guess:

70% of the time a manager has negligible effect (plus or minus 2 or fewer wins compared to Pythagorean W-L) on a given teamís success;
20% of the time a manager can hurt a teamís success, sometimes in ways that we donít yet have the metrics to quantify;
10% of the time a manager can help a teamís success more than 2 wins over Pythagorean W-L.

Maybe my numbers are off, but I stand by the idea until I see data that proves otherwise.

I think talent and player performance is far more important. Over his managerial career, Ventura was -1 compared to Pythagorean W-L. He was mediocre; his impact was negligible.
After that ****show last night, I feel supremely confident that Renteria is in that 20% who will hurt a teamís success. At this point, I consider the benchings for lack of hustle and the ďRickyís boys donít quitĒ catch phrase as insults to the fansí intelligence.

My message to the White Sox is a simple one:

ďDonít piss down my back and tell me itís raining.Ē
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  #20  
Old 08-19-2018, 02:25 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fungo bat View Post
In my opinion Rentaria is simply a placeholder. When the time comes JR will give him some front office position or possibly put him to work as an advance scout, maybe even a bench coach for a year or so. Vizquel is the manager in waiting for the White Sox. Once this team turns the corner he'll take over the reins with KW and company keeping a close eye on him. Cooper? Not sure what his future is with the White Sox.
I'm a big fan of Vizquel as our next manager- if we don't give him the job- someone is going to scoop him up fast- I'd like to see him move up to Birmingham next season- then take over the Sox for 2020.

I'd also like so see him 100% empowered to hire his own coaching staff.
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Players that are an important part of the rebuild:
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  #21  
Old 08-19-2018, 02:41 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzh View Post
I think coaches in baseball are even more neutral than most other sports, too. One coachís offensive or defensive scheme can change the way the game is played in basketball or football, not so much in baseball.

Iíve always thought that a managerís biggest impact was in the clubhouse and figuring out how to play his players to their strengths and put them in a position to succeed, but my unscientific opinion has always been that given the exact same team, the swing from the very best manager to the very worst is probably no more than 4 or 5 games.
The psychology aspects of the job regarding players are so much more important than the extra 6? runs a year you score by bunting less and most of us ignore that part of what a manager does.

As long as you and I don't overemphasize the trivial and forget the important, we're OK.
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