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  #31  
Old 05-14-2018, 06:27 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Even if it does bust it was the right move to take. I mean given the limitations by ownership and the front office staying status quo what else could be done?

And if it does blow up (and I've actually been thinking about this recently) what else can be done? What could they possibly do moving forward that they haven't already tried (all contingent of course on ownership staying the same...)

Six weeks into the year and six teams, as late as May 11th 2018, were on pace to lose 100 plus games. Attendance at GRF is down twenty-five percent from last year.


What a pathetic era of the game we find ourselves in.
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  #32  
Old 05-14-2018, 07:45 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Even if it does bust it was the right move to take. I mean given the limitations by ownership and the front office staying status quo what else could be done?

And if it does blow up (and I've actually been thinking about this recently) what else can be done? What could they possibly do moving forward that they haven't already tried (all contingent of course on ownership staying the same...)
Off course from everyone here you'd be the one thinking about the doom and gloom possibility that this rebuild will be a complete failure and the Sox will live in the basement permanently until the end of time.

I'll say this to alleviate your angst: There is no way this plan will be a 100% complete failure. Of the 15-20 Blue Chip prospects we have on hand and including the next two drafts, there is no way the Sox will swing and miss on every single one of them. At the very worst case, and this will be the worst possible outcome from this, the Sox come out with 4-5 Core Level All star type players just as they had before this tear down started. All is not lost at that point and they will just need to spend money to compete at that point.
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  #33  
Old 05-14-2018, 09:14 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Off course from everyone here you'd be the one thinking about the doom and gloom possibility that this rebuild will be a complete failure and the Sox will live in the basement permanently until the end of time.
Exaggerate much?

I'm the type that tries to think of all contingencies ahead of time, that's the way I'm wired. The thought has crossed my mind this week while working in the yard.

And you know what? The Sox front office damn well better be thinking about it ahead of time too, just in case.
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  #34  
Old 05-14-2018, 09:17 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is online now
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
the doom and gloom possibility that this rebuild will be a complete failure and the Sox will live in the basement permanently until the end of time
That's not a real possibility, because there will be a reset whenever we get new ownership.

I think the worst case is we get back to where we were, a .500 team, but with a better farm system.
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  #35  
Old 05-14-2018, 09:21 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica
I think the worst case is we get back to where we were, a .500 team, but with a better farm system.
A better farm system and no bad long-term contracts on the books can go a long way.
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  #36  
Old 05-14-2018, 10:36 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Exaggerate much?

I'm the type that tries to think of all contingencies ahead of time, that's the way I'm wired. The thought has crossed my mind this week while working in the yard.

And you know what? The Sox front office damn well better be thinking about it ahead of time too, just in case.
Contingencies less than 14 months into a rebuild?

Come on man, let this thing develop a little. The bulk of our young talent has not even hit the ML club, let alone Charlotte.

And if JR, Kenny, and Rick are fools enough to already be thinking contingencies then I truly don't want them running this team.
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  #37  
Old 05-14-2018, 10:47 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is online now
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
That's not a real possibility, because there will be a reset whenever we get new ownership.

I think the worst case is we get back to where we were, a .500 team, but with a better farm system.
Who am I kidding? We were not a .500 team before the rebuild. The worst case scenario is still an improvement.
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  #38  
Old 05-15-2018, 04:09 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
At the very worst case, and this will be the worst possible outcome from this, the Sox come out with 4-5 Core Level All star type players just as they had before this tear down started. All is not lost at that point and they will just need to spend money to compete at that point.
It's Groundhog Day!

So the organization would be at the point they were before selling off Sale, Eaton, & Q. Just change the names on the merchandise.

Now you have stars, four to five seems a bit optimistic but I'll go with it, the team can't win and the organization is faced to spend money of FA. How much, on who and will the southside of Chicago be desirable to free agents?

The irony of it all: asking a fan base to be patient while the culture shorter attention spans.

No, this better work.

Failure, that is defined as not being in the running to win a WS, is not an option.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Contingencies less than 14 months into a rebuild?

An organization that doesn't have contingencies is bad organization.
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  #39  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:08 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is online now
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
It's Groundhog Day!

So the organization would be at the point they were before selling off Sale, Eaton, & Q. Just change the names on the merchandise.

Now you have stars, four to five seems a bit optimistic but I'll go with it, the team can't win and the organization is faced to spend money of FA. How much, on who and will the southside of Chicago be desirable to free agents?

The irony of it all: asking a fan base to be patient while the culture shorter attention spans.

No, this better work.

Failure, that is defined as not being in the running to win a WS, is not an option.





An organization that doesn't have contingencies is bad organization.
I think you skipped right over the words very worst case.

What was the worst case if they didn't rebuild? Ventura is extended, Eaton has the same injuries, Quintana loses effectiveness...yeah, that would have been fun.
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  #40  
Old 05-15-2018, 08:27 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
Well, you could go out and sign a bunch of free agents like the Yankees and Red Sox used to do. Of course, that comes with some risks as well. You could also invest heavily in scouting and development so you can always have a relatively decent farm system like the Cardinals.
And the investment in scouting and development is exactly what they should do for sustained winning. But I thought they were - are they not?
As for free agents...the Cubs have signed 3 high priced free agents; 2 of the 3 stink.
The Astros didn't sign any.
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  #41  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:20 AM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post


An organization that doesn't have contingencies is bad organization.
Not necessarily in this case.

All contingencies were off the table the minute you pulled the plug and traded Sale. You either were all in for this rebuild or not.

Dumb ass short sighted contingencies is what this team has been notorious for and the reason we were stuck in the mess in the first place.

Stick to the damn plan. I don't give a **** if we lose 100 this season and next season.
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  #42  
Old 05-15-2018, 11:25 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is online now
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Stick to the damn plan. I don't give a **** if we lose 100 this season and next season.
And it’s entirely possible that we could lose 100 next year. It’s not a criticism; it’s acceptance of a possibility.

In 2019, our infield and DH situation will largely be the same, and we’ll only be adding Eloy to the OF. We simply don’t have any other position players who project to be “above replacement level” in the organization who will be ready to break camp with the Sox in 2019. Our rotation will have added Kopech and dropped Shields. That’s a significant upgrade of talent but it’s unreasonable to expect that Kopech also wouldn’t have struggles in his first MLB season. In the bullpen, Stephens and Vieira might be marginal upgrades over two of the current relievers.

2020 is when we should start to see a significant wave of talent have a chance to make the club, but again we must keep in mind that most rookies struggle, and/or are subject to the “sophomore slump” as they try to adjust to the league adjusting to them.

So a realistic, clear-eyed prediction of the trajectory ought to be:

2018: rock bottom; 100 losses
2019: ~90 losses
2020: .500ish
2021: maybe we give Cleveland a race
2022: most of the young talent has survived their struggles, win the Central
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  #43  
Old 05-15-2018, 11:52 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
So a realistic, clear-eyed prediction of the trajectory ought to be:

2018: rock bottom; 100 losses
2019: ~90 losses
2020: .500ish
2021: maybe we give Cleveland a race
2022: most of the young talent has survived their struggles, win the Central
This is a really fair assessment.
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  #44  
Old 05-15-2018, 02:13 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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We've gone from "#soxtober2019" and "Hahnsight is 2020" to hopefully we can win the division in 2022.

The moving of the goalposts has commenced.
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  #45  
Old 05-15-2018, 02:36 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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We've gone from "#soxtober2019" and "Hahnsight is 2020" to hopefully we can win the division in 2022.

The moving of the goalposts has commenced.
I think people didn't really grasp just how far away those goalposts should have been to start with, and that's been pretty evident from discussion on these boards. I don't blame them; this franchise has not really gone through this process before, and unless you really take a look at the teams who have (and have been successful), it's hard to point to realistic progress points.
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