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  #46  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:04 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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I think people didn't really grasp just how far away those goalposts should have been to start with, and that's been pretty evident from discussion on these boards. I don't blame them; this franchise has not really gone through this process before, and unless you really take a look at the teams who have (and have been successful), it's hard to point to realistic progress points.
I just think the AL Central is year-over-year the worst division in baseball, bar none. It shouldn't take three more years to get back in the hunt if some of these prospects are as advertised, and if the GM is serious when he says the owner is willing to open up his pocketbook.

People love to make that comparison with the Cubs, so fine, let's make the comparison. The Cubs had three pretty brutal years, 101 losses, 96 losses, then 89 losses. Then they made the jump to 97-65 in Season 4. Season 5, 103 wins and a world championship.

This is Season 2 for the Sox. Season 4 is 2020, not 2022. I'm just saying.

If this team still blows in 2020, I will not listen to people who tell me to "be patient." I can barely tolerate that crap now.
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  #47  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:18 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
I just think the AL Central is year-over-year the worst division in baseball, bar none. It shouldn't take three more years to get back in the hunt if some of these prospects are as advertised, and if the GM is serious when he says the owner is willing to open up his pocketbook.

People love to make that comparison with the Cubs, so fine, let's make the comparison. The Cubs had three pretty brutal years, 101 losses, 96 losses, then 89 losses. Then they made the jump to 97-65 in Season 4. Season 5, 103 wins and a world championship.

This is Season 2 for the Sox. Season 4 is 2020, not 2022. I'm just saying.

If this team still blows in 2020, I will not listen to people who tell me to "be patient." I can barely tolerate that crap now.
Didn't the rebuild begin when Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez were brought up? So August of 2017. By that logic we have until 2021 to begin winning.
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  #48  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:18 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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If this team still blows in 2020, I will not listen to people who tell me to "be patient." I can barely tolerate that crap now.
I don't mean to sound flip (really, I don't - and such things come across poorly in writing, so I want to make it clear I'm not being an ass), but let's say they still blow in 2020. What will you do? Abandon the team? Something less than that?
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  #49  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:26 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I don't mean to sound flip (really, I don't - and such things come across poorly in writing, so I want to make it clear I'm not being an ass), but let's say they still blow in 2020. What will you do? Abandon the team? Something less than that?
If the team still sucks in 2020 and no one has been fired, I'd probably just stop watching them and stop spending any money on tickets. It won't do much, granted, but it will probably make me feel better.
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  #50  
Old 05-15-2018, 04:53 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is online now
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Iím not moving the goalposts. That kind of time frame has always been what I have seen as realistic.

Sure, the Sox could try to accelerate that by trading some younger prospects for veteran help, and/or pour a bunch of money into free agents, but I think thatís short-sighted and unrealistic.

The bottoming out of 88-89 saw a surprising resurgence in 1990, but those Sox didnít make the playoffs until 1993.

The bottoming out of 98-99 saw a surprising division title in 2000, but they didnít win the World Series until 2005.

Iím not pessimistic, but Iím also reserving judgment until after I see how young players and prospects develop this year.
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  #51  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:10 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
I just think the AL Central is year-over-year the worst division in baseball, bar none. It shouldn't take three more years to get back in the hunt if some of these prospects are as advertised, and if the GM is serious when he says the owner is willing to open up his pocketbook.

People love to make that comparison with the Cubs, so fine, let's make the comparison. The Cubs had three pretty brutal years, 101 losses, 96 losses, then 89 losses. Then they made the jump to 97-65 in Season 4. Season 5, 103 wins and a world championship.

This is Season 2 for the Sox. Season 4 is 2020, not 2022. I'm just saying.

If this team still blows in 2020, I will not listen to people who tell me to "be patient." I can barely tolerate that crap now.
Good points. The Braves don't seem to be taking five years...at least right now anyway.
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  #52  
Old 05-15-2018, 06:18 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Stick to the damn plan. I don't give a **** if we lose 100 this season and next season.

Well, when numbers dwindle even that sweetheart deal will not make the owner happy.
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  #53  
Old 05-15-2018, 07:29 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Iím not moving the goalposts. That kind of time frame has always been what I have seen as realistic.

Sure, the Sox could try to accelerate that by trading some younger prospects for veteran help, and/or pour a bunch of money into free agents, but I think thatís short-sighted and unrealistic.

The bottoming out of 88-89 saw a surprising resurgence in 1990, but those Sox didnít make the playoffs until 1993.

The bottoming out of 98-99 saw a surprising division title in 2000, but they didnít win the World Series until 2005.

Iím not pessimistic, but Iím also reserving judgment until after I see how young players and prospects develop this year.
True but if the baseball had the playoff format then that it has now the White Sox would have made the playoffs in 1990 and 1991. Even with the expanded playoffs, I don't think this team is competing for a Wild Card spot in 2019.
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  #54  
Old 05-15-2018, 09:09 PM
asindc asindc is offline
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Good points. The Braves don't seem to be taking five years...at least right now anyway.
Actually, the past 4 years, Atlanta has had losing records while rebuilding.
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  #55  
Old 05-15-2018, 09:26 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Actually, the past 4 years, Atlanta has had losing records while rebuilding.
They've been rebuilding for four years?
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  #56  
Old 05-15-2018, 09:39 PM
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They've been rebuilding for four years?
For 3 years.
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  #57  
Old 05-16-2018, 12:06 AM
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Didn't the rebuild begin when Moncada, Giolito, and Lopez were brought up? So August of 2017. By that logic we have until 2021 to begin winning.
The rebuild began Dec. 6, 2016.
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  #58  
Old 05-16-2018, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I don't mean to sound flip (really, I don't - and such things come across poorly in writing, so I want to make it clear I'm not being an ass), but let's say they still blow in 2020. What will you do? Abandon the team? Something less than that?
That's beside the point. The question I'm asking is, when is it OK to start expecting results?
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  #59  
Old 05-16-2018, 12:16 AM
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C'mon Frater, they call it a "five-year plan" for a reason. Year 5 would be 2021, and all we're expecting at that point is to maybe give Cleveland a race?

Just forget about the White Sox for a second, and let's look at Cleveland. That team is below .500 at the quarter-pole of the season here in 2018 and showing signs of decay. And we don't think we can challenge them for at least three more years with this bevy of highly regarded prospects and all this available payroll?

Seriously? Really?

How long a leash are we giving this front office?
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  #60  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:37 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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C'mon Frater, they call it a "five-year plan" for a reason. Year 5 would be 2021, and all we're expecting at that point is to maybe give Cleveland a race?

Just forget about the White Sox for a second, and let's look at Cleveland. That team is below .500 at the quarter-pole of the season here in 2018 and showing signs of decay. And we don't think we can challenge them for at least three more years with this bevy of highly regarded prospects and all this available payroll?

Seriously? Really?

How long a leash are we giving this front office?
Dec 2021 would be 5 years from the date mentioned above. That would be AFTER the 2021 season obviously so yes 2021 and 2022 would appear to be the target window for making some noise in the playoffs.
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