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  #46  
Old 06-11-2019, 12:56 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I do not like this idea at all. First, it would surprise me to see the Sox sign someone to a $30 million a year contract. Second, why move Moncada to a position he has never played? He seems to have turned things around and embraced 3B so why risk him regressing by moving him again?
I agree- Moncada has looked solid defensively in his first few months at 3rd- with the 9th highest OPS of regular 3rd basemen in all of MLB.

Save all that money to solve our real problems - which will probably be in our starting rotation.
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  #47  
Old 06-11-2019, 01:38 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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There are 21 games until the All Star break. Only 4 of them feature an opponent with a worse record than us (tonight’s game and 3 games against the Tigers). Going 9-12 or worse should lock this team firmly into sell mode.

Every season in baseball is an either-or situation: either you’re legitimately competing for a playoff spot, or you’re developing for the future. A team that is 40-46 at the All Star break needs to be realistic about its chances and sell off any short-term players who generate interest from contenders. Abreu, Leury, Colomé, McCann, Yolmer, Nova, Marshall should all be shopped. I have no idea what level of interest other teams may or may not have in these players, but after draftees start to sign, teams will have to start moving some guys to make room. Even a minimal return is better than no return at all.

Get younger. Acquire low-minors guys who you like better than the ones you currently have. Maybe you can acquire a “change of scenery” guy or two.
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  #48  
Old 06-11-2019, 02:42 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
There are 21 games until the All Star break. Only 4 of them feature an opponent with a worse record than us (tonight’s game and 3 games against the Tigers). Going 9-12 or worse should lock this team firmly into sell mode.

Every season in baseball is an either-or situation: either you’re legitimately competing for a playoff spot, or you’re developing for the future. A team that is 40-46 at the All Star break needs to be realistic about its chances and sell off any short-term players who generate interest from contenders. Abreu, Leury, Colomé, McCann, Yolmer, Nova, Marshall should all be shopped. I have no idea what level of interest other teams may or may not have in these players, but after draftees start to sign, teams will have to start moving some guys to make room. Even a minimal return is better than no return at all.

Get younger. Acquire low-minors guys who you like better than the ones you currently have. Maybe you can acquire a “change of scenery” guy or two.
I don't agree with "minimal return" as acceptable- I think we should be considering extending McCann and Marshall vs. dumping them. I would consider trading Colome if we can get good value, less interested in moving Abreu and Leury. I'll take anything at all in return for Nova or Yolmer.

With Kopech and Cease added to this rotation- and probably Robert to the outfield in 2020- at some poiint I think we should "stabilize" our talent and start to turn the focus towards winning.
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  #49  
Old 06-11-2019, 03:28 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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He has been okay, but the reality is winning teams do not run Leury Garcia out in CF every day.

We have a bright future, but we need to not homer it up with guys like Garcia and Yolmer. Even Abreu, if anyone will give us anything decent, trade him. These are not guys that are going to be contributors to a winning team in the future.

Also, DO NOT TRADE MCCANN. It isn't that I am buying this career turn around, but holy hell give him a 10 year deal to stay as Gio's personal caddy.
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  #50  
Old 06-11-2019, 03:35 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I don't agree with "minimal return" as acceptable- I think we should be considering extending McCann and Marshall vs. dumping them. I would consider trading Colome if we can get good value, less interested in moving Abreu and Leury. I'll take anything at all in return for Nova or Yolmer.

With Kopech and Cease added to this rotation- and probably Robert to the outfield in 2020- at some poiint I think we should "stabilize" our talent and start to turn the focus towards winning.
The problem with that is the current on-hand talent is producing at a sub-.500 clip. We really should be looking to improve those spots.

I don’t mind keeping Colomé and McCann. Since they are under team control for another year, those guys aren’t really in the “underwhelming return” group. However, there is the fact that both those guys, along with Leury and Marshall, would be at peak value, and a team in our situation should really be taking advantage of that.

As for the others, get what you can, especially Jose Abreu. When the 2 choices are adding a potential future contributor or holding on to 3 months of “clubhouse leadership,” a team that is not in contention should definitely choose the former.
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  #51  
Old 06-11-2019, 03:43 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
There are 21 games until the All Star break. Only 4 of them feature an opponent with a worse record than us (tonight’s game and 3 games against the Tigers). Going 9-12 or worse should lock this team firmly into sell mode.

Every season in baseball is an either-or situation: either you’re legitimately competing for a playoff spot, or you’re developing for the future. A team that is 40-46 at the All Star break needs to be realistic about its chances and sell off any short-term players who generate interest from contenders. Abreu, Leury, Colomé, McCann, Yolmer, Nova, Marshall should all be shopped. I have no idea what level of interest other teams may or may not have in these players, but after draftees start to sign, teams will have to start moving some guys to make room. Even a minimal return is better than no return at all.

Get younger. Acquire low-minors guys who you like better than the ones you currently have. Maybe you can acquire a “change of scenery” guy or two.
I think the only players you mention that they will seriously consider trading are Colome and Marshall (Nova, Leury, Sanchez don't have a market), I would add pretty much any reliever to that group as well. Specifically I'm interested in seeing how much value Bummer has, might be able to package him with Colome for a good high level SP prospect that's in the top 100.

I don't think there is any chance that they trade McCann as they will be trying to compete next year, and I think any kind of combo of Castillo, Collins, and Sevala will be a mess. Plenty of catchers play well into their early 30s, so I think it's possible for McCann to be a quality starting C for the next 3-4 years (he's almost 29).
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  #52  
Old 06-11-2019, 04:07 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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A good team can have one player like Leury, Yolmer, or Tilson, in the starting lineup as the #9 hitter.

But having all three in the lineup is not good, particularly when your primary DH is performing as poorly as Alonso.

Since all four are replaceable, I’ll entertain trade offers for any of them, particularly since superior replacements for each exist in the upper levels of our system. I don’t think any would fetch much, but some of our relievers might.

I’m inclined to hang on to Abreu by inking him to a 2-year extension, since he’s a dependable run producer in the middle of the lineup at a position where he can always spend additional time at DH if Sheets or Vaughn arrive sooner than expected.
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  #53  
Old 06-11-2019, 05:09 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
A good team can have one player like Leury, Yolmer, or Tilson, in the starting lineup as the #9 hitter.

But having all three in the lineup is not good, particularly when your primary DH is performing as poorly as Alonso.

Since all four are replaceable, I’ll entertain trade offers for any of them, particularly since superior replacements for each exist in the upper levels of our system. I don’t think any would fetch much, but some of our relievers might.

I’m inclined to hang on to Abreu by inking him to a 2-year extension, since he’s a dependable run producer in the middle of the lineup at a position where he can always spend additional time at DH if Sheets or Vaughn arrive sooner than expected.
Ideally the low OPS guy in our lineup in the future batting 9 is Madrigal. He can have a high BA and decent OBP, while playing great D at 2b and turn the lineup over. Yolmer makes sense, and always has, as a utility infielder. Tilson or Cordell should be auditioning for the 4th OFer spot.
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  #54  
Old 06-11-2019, 05:11 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Ideally the low OPS guy in our lineup in the future batting 9 is Madrigal. He can have a high BA and decent OBP, while playing great D at 2b and turn the lineup over. Yolmer makes sense, and always has, as a utility infielder. Tilson or Cordell should be auditioning for the 4th OFer spot.
Exactly. If Madrigal is hitting ninth, the rest of the lineup should be pretty damn strong.
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  #55  
Old 06-11-2019, 05:42 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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For some reason, I'm not as concerned about pitching. We may have our ace in Gio. That's probably the hardest part of the equation. They will add Rodon at the midway point of 2020 and when he's been healthy (yes, all too rare), he's shown top of the rotation if not ace stuff. Kopech hasn't proven anything yet, but he's certainly got the arsenal to be at least a middle-of-the-rotation guy.

It gets murky after that - Cease, Dunning, Hansen, Lopez, etc.

Sign one quality SP and maybe one innings-eater/serviceable 5th starter and hope one or more the above steps up.

The bullpen is a bit messy but they could have their closer if they decide not to trade Colome.

One thing is for certain - 2020 should prove to be an interesting year even if they fall short of the post-season.
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  #56  
Old 06-11-2019, 10:54 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
There are 21 games until the All Star break. Only 4 of them feature an opponent with a worse record than us (tonight’s game and 3 games against the Tigers). Going 9-12 or worse should lock this team firmly into sell mode.

Every season in baseball is an either-or situation: either you’re legitimately competing for a playoff spot, or you’re developing for the future. A team that is 40-46 at the All Star break needs to be realistic about its chances and sell off any short-term players who generate interest from contenders. Abreu, Leury, Colomé, McCann, Yolmer, Nova, Marshall should all be shopped. I have no idea what level of interest other teams may or may not have in these players, but after draftees start to sign, teams will have to start moving some guys to make room. Even a minimal return is better than no return at all.

Get younger. Acquire low-minors guys who you like better than the ones you currently have. Maybe you can acquire a “change of scenery” guy or two.
Figure it this way. Eloy appears to be getting hot... REALLY hot and he might start looking like the 1.000 OPS hitter so many of us expect him to be. Figure Abreu is due to start a hot streak soon also. Those two guys can carry a team to a LOT of wins when their hot and if they are hot at the same time... LOOK OUT!

Sox slug their way to a team in race for a wild card? Oh that would suck...
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  #57  
Old 06-12-2019, 12:10 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Figure it this way. Eloy appears to be getting hot... REALLY hot and he might start looking like the 1.000 OPS hitter so many of us expect him to be. Figure Abreu is due to start a hot streak soon also. Those two guys can carry a team to a LOT of wins when their hot and if they are hot at the same time... LOOK OUT!

Sox slug their way to a team in race for a wild card? Oh that would suck...
At -55, they also have, by far, the worst run differential in that pack of teams competing for that 2nd Wild Card. Cleveland at -5 and the Angels at -3 are the only other quasi-contenders with negative run differentials, and most of the chatter around the Indians is focused on selling, not buying. We are much closer to teams like the Mariners, Royals, and Blue Jays than we are to legitimately competing for a Wild Card berth. The easiest schedule in baseball has inflated the win total, and the team still could not even crack the .500 mark against that cakewalk schedule.

Standing pat and hoping for some kind of 2nd-half Wild Card push would be silly. This team is obviously too flawed to pull it off.
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  #58  
Old 06-12-2019, 07:56 AM
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At -55, they also have, by far, the worst run differential in that pack of teams competing for that 2nd Wild Card. Cleveland at -5 and the Angels at -3 are the only other quasi-contenders with negative run differentials, and most of the chatter around the Indians is focused on selling, not buying. We are much closer to teams like the Mariners, Royals, and Blue Jays than we are to legitimately competing for a Wild Card berth. The easiest schedule in baseball has inflated the win total, and the team still could not even crack the .500 mark against that cakewalk schedule.

Standing pat and hoping for some kind of 2nd-half Wild Card push would be silly. This team is obviously too flawed to pull it off.
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  #59  
Old 06-12-2019, 08:59 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
At -55, they also have, by far, the worst run differential in that pack of teams competing for that 2nd Wild Card. Cleveland at -5 and the Angels at -3 are the only other quasi-contenders with negative run differentials, and most of the chatter around the Indians is focused on selling, not buying. We are much closer to teams like the Mariners, Royals, and Blue Jays than we are to legitimately competing for a Wild Card berth. The easiest schedule in baseball has inflated the win total, and the team still could not even crack the .500 mark against that cakewalk schedule.

Standing pat and hoping for some kind of 2nd-half Wild Card push would be silly. This team is obviously too flawed to pull it off.
Run differential is skewed because they've been blown out a number of times, especially some of those games against the Red Sox, Twins, and Nationals. Obviously getting blown out isn't a sign of a good team. But the biggest reason for those blowouts is that the rotation is currently filled with 2 guys that really don't belong in a major league rotation (Banuelos and Despaigne/Covey), and two guys that have been a roller coaster to watch (Lopez, Nova). That situation (and a couple bullpen meltdowns) has led to some lopsided scores. The hope is that Lopez and Nova can gain some consistency, and at some point Cease take one of the back of the rotation spots, and the situation starts to normalize. All that is to say that run differential might not be the best indicator of the team's future record in this case.

Strength of schedule, on the other hand.... there's no arguing with that one. But I'm looking forward to seeing what this team can do against the higher competition. The next month will be very telling.
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  #60  
Old 06-12-2019, 09:59 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
At -55, they also have, by far, the worst run differential in that pack of teams competing for that 2nd Wild Card. Cleveland at -5 and the Angels at -3 are the only other quasi-contenders with negative run differentials, and most of the chatter around the Indians is focused on selling, not buying. We are much closer to teams like the Mariners, Royals, and Blue Jays than we are to legitimately competing for a Wild Card berth. The easiest schedule in baseball has inflated the win total, and the team still could not even crack the .500 mark against that cakewalk schedule.

Standing pat and hoping for some kind of 2nd-half Wild Card push would be silly. This team is obviously too flawed to pull it off.
Without 3 TJ surgeries for Kopech, Rodon and Dunning- I think we could hang around the wild card long enough to make it interesting and give the young guys a small taste of a pennant race (a few big games with big crowds, etc.) before falling back.

But with Giolito followed by 4 days of prayer- no chance.
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