White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
GO SOX! DSNB!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 06-12-2019, 11:34 AM
esbrechtel esbrechtel is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Western Suburbs
Posts: 5,179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
Without 3 TJ surgeries for Kopech, Rodon and Dunning- I think we could hang around the wild card long enough to make it interesting and give the young guys a small taste of a pennant race (a few big games with big crowds, etc.) before falling back.

But with Giolito followed by 4 days of prayer- no chance.
agreed!

I am good with keeping Abreu around unless someone really wows you. He can be a great mentor to Eloy, Moncada, Luis Robert, etc.

Colombe is movable and I assume he will be traded.

I am on the McCann train. He has handled this staff very well and I would like to see him stick around. Plus, I can't imagine you would get anything of real value for him.

As far as trading Garcia, Sanchez, etc.... What value do they even have? We still need to trot 9 guys out there everyday, they may be more valuable to the sox than anyone else at this point. If you can get something of value great, but if we are just trading them to get a "change of scenery guy" I think thats stupid. The Sox farm is strong so I think getting a prospect who is "better than what we have" is much more difficult than it was years ago.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 06-12-2019, 12:20 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,306
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Part pooper...
All Iím saying is that the real party has not yet started.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and letís fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 06-12-2019, 12:24 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,306
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
Run differential is skewed because they've been blown out a number of times, especially some of those games against the Red Sox, Twins, and Nationals. Obviously getting blown out isn't a sign of a good team. But the biggest reason for those blowouts is that the rotation is currently filled with 2 guys that really don't belong in a major league rotation (Banuelos and Despaigne/Covey), and two guys that have been a roller coaster to watch (Lopez, Nova). That situation (and a couple bullpen meltdowns) has led to some lopsided scores. The hope is that Lopez and Nova can gain some consistency, and at some point Cease take one of the back of the rotation spots, and the situation starts to normalize. All that is to say that run differential might not be the best indicator of the team's future record in this case.

Strength of schedule, on the other hand.... there's no arguing with that one. But I'm looking forward to seeing what this team can do against the higher competition. The next month will be very telling.
Those other bad teams are also getting blown out, and they also have quad-A guys in the rotation. Those types of things usually even out.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 06-12-2019, 12:31 PM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 58,627
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
All Iím saying is that the real party has not yet started.
I know and I agree with your points. I'm just starting to look at Eloy and Moncada and get happy thoughts dancing around in my head. I think Eloy is about to go on a tear we will remember for a LONG time and if some other bats heat up around him. It might lead to a fun summer. Especially if they can find ANY kind of consistency from the pitching staff which as bad as it has been isn't entirely outside the realm of possibility.
__________________

Riding shotgun on the Sox bandwagon since before there was an Internet...
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 06-12-2019, 12:33 PM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 58,627
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Those other bad teams are also getting blown out, and they also have quad-A guys in the rotation. Those types of things usually even out.
How many of them have had close to a lights out 8th and 9th inning bullpen to turn to when the games are close? It's not a surprise with Colome and Herrera/Bummer/Burr that the Sox are outperforming their Pythagorean win total.

Last edited by voodoochile; 06-12-2019 at 12:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 06-12-2019, 12:41 PM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,382
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Those other bad teams are also getting blown out, and they also have quad-A guys in the rotation. Those types of things usually even out.
IMO a major difference would be that unlike most teams, the Sox have a guy in Cease who is close to replacing one of the AAAA guys, and another guy in Nova who has actually turned things around to a large extent. Also season-long stats don't include much of Eloy. Projecting forward to end of year, all of those are reasons to think compared to other "bad" teams Sox are less likely to "stay bad."
__________________
"You don't quit. You don't go home before it's time. You don't come out of a game, even if you are in pain and feel as if you can't go one more step"
"Never give up, Never, never, never give up."
- Luther Head after Elite 8 win v. Arizona
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 06-12-2019, 12:58 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,306
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
IMO a major difference would be that unlike most teams, the Sox have a guy in Cease who is close to replacing one of the AAAA guys, and another guy in Nova who has actually turned things around to a large extent. Also season-long stats don't include much of Eloy. Projecting forward to end of year, all of those are reasons to think compared to other "bad" teams Sox are less likely to "stay bad."
They will need all those reasons just to account for the schedule getting much harder.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 06-12-2019, 01:08 PM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,081
Default

Seeing Cease this season would be throwing reckless abandon toward our rebuild. He's never thrown a ton of innings, and pushing him to throw more than 150 innings this year would be an unnecessary and careless risk. The guy has never built up the arm strength to throw that much, let alone a full season of starting. He's topped 100 innings once.

For all the talk of not rushing guys that aren't ready, the organization loses all accountability if Cease is called up. Nobody can make a legitimate argument that a starter that hasn't touched 120 innings professionally in a season without issue is ready to throw 200 innings in the big leagues.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 06-12-2019, 01:46 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 15,789
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
IMO a major difference would be that unlike most teams, the Sox have a guy in Cease who is close to replacing one of the AAAA guys, and another guy in Nova who has actually turned things around to a large extent. Also season-long stats don't include much of Eloy. Projecting forward to end of year, all of those are reasons to think compared to other "bad" teams Sox are less likely to "stay bad."
But he's the only pitching prospect they have anywhere close to the majors. Many other teams have more than 1...maybe not as good as him, but more than just him.
Hopefully they can address part of that problem at the deadline.
And the AAAA starters have been better than the veteran starters that were signed/traded for; I don't know whether that's good or bad but that's the way it is. And Banuelos was traded for - although he had been a career minor leaguer the FO at least thought he was better than a AAAA player and hopefully they are right. Still they could use 2 strong arms in the rotation (and 2 more for some cushion/reserve).

Last edited by Tragg; 06-12-2019 at 01:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 06-12-2019, 02:02 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 15,789
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Standing pat and hoping for some kind of 2nd-half Wild Card push would be silly. This team is obviously too flawed to pull it off.
That's true and if they have an opportunity to bring in a real contributor at the deadline, they should take it. They should look for it. Tampa made an amazing bit of progress in July 2018.
That -55 is basically a product of lack of pitching depth: they are 1 deep in the rotation (they get good starts from 2-5 about half the time) and 3 deep in the pen (Minaya and Osich can lengthen it out some days but they are iffy). The pythag is 28-38, but the record in one run games is only 6-5, so it's not like they've been getting particularly lucky.
The truth is probably in the middle and they will end up with 72-76 wins.
How close are they? Only as close as the pitching is.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 06-12-2019, 02:36 PM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
That's true and if they have an opportunity to bring in a real contributor at the deadline, they should take it. They should look for it. Tampa made an amazing bit of progress in July 2018.
That -55 is basically a product of lack of pitching depth: they are 1 deep in the rotation (they get good starts from 2-5 about half the time) and 3 deep in the pen (Minaya and Osich can lengthen it out some days but they are iffy). The pythag is 28-38, but the record in one run games is only 6-5, so it's not like they've been getting particularly lucky.
The truth is probably in the middle and they will end up with 72-76 wins.
How close are they? Only as close as the pitching is.
You also have to assume, with the bulk of the remaining schedule against harder competition it's going to slip. And if we're out of it, there will undoubtedly be a selloff of short term assets (Nova, Colome, Alonso for sure won't be here in August). I'm not sure 72-76 wins is possible, and I'd be more comfortable predicting 70 wins if we were able to play better against what has been a cakewalk schedule through the first two months. Individuals have certainly shined and cemented their place in the rebuild...but as a whole I'm not sure this team is much better than last year's lot. Just...more watchable.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 06-12-2019, 02:36 PM
central44 central44 is online now
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,173
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
That's true and if they have an opportunity to bring in a real contributor at the deadline, they should take it. They should look for it. Tampa made an amazing bit of progress in July 2018.
That -55 is basically a product of lack of pitching depth: they are 1 deep in the rotation (they get good starts from 2-5 about half the time) and 3 deep in the pen (Minaya and Osich can lengthen it out some days but they are iffy). The pythag is 28-38, but the record in one run games is only 6-5, so it's not like they've been getting particularly lucky.
The truth is probably in the middle and they will end up with 72-76 wins.
How close are they? Only as close as the pitching is.
But the pitching--while inconsistent this year due to injuries--isn't exactly a question mark moving forward. We know the Sox rotation is going to include some combination of Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Rodon, Lopez, and Dunning (not all of them) and probably a free agent from somewhere. The fact that the Sox have been unlucky in 2019 and reduced to a shell of their pitching staff shouldn't preclude them from looking at 2020 as a possible contention year when they're hopefully at full strength.

For that reason, I don't want to see them take any more steps backward by trading away guys like Colome and Abreu who might be able to play meaningful roles on a contender in 2020.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 06-12-2019, 02:39 PM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,081
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by central44 View Post
But the pitching--while inconsistent this year due to injuries--isn't exactly a question mark moving forward. We know the Sox rotation is going to include some combination of Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Rodon, Lopez, and Dunning (not all of them) and probably a free agent from somewhere. The fact that the Sox have been unlucky in 2019 and reduced to a shell of their pitching staff shouldn't preclude them from looking at 2020 as a possible contention year when they're hopefully at full strength.

For that reason, I don't want to see them take any more steps backward by trading away guys like Colome and Abreu who might be able to play meaningful roles on a contender in 2020.
Right now, all the non-Giolito names are written in pencil. It's just as likely that he's the only starter in the bunch as it is any other number of guys make up our future rotation. Kopech and Cease have tremendous talent, but injuries have a way of derailing guys and both have suffered pretty significant ones in their time. Lopez doesn't currently look like he'll make it, and Dunning was never really considered a top or even mid rotation arm.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 06-12-2019, 03:09 PM
I_Liked_Manuel I_Liked_Manuel is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: downers ****ing grove
Posts: 1,604
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by central44 View Post
But the pitching--while inconsistent this year due to injuries--isn't exactly a question mark moving forward. We know the Sox rotation is going to include some combination of Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Rodon, Lopez, and Dunning (not all of them) and probably a free agent from somewhere. The fact that the Sox have been unlucky in 2019 and reduced to a shell of their pitching staff shouldn't preclude them from looking at 2020 as a possible contention year when they're hopefully at full strength.

For that reason, I don't want to see them take any more steps backward by trading away guys like Colome and Abreu who might be able to play meaningful roles on a contender in 2020.
I'm hoping that there's enough irritation in Kenny Williams with losing that he finds another Freddy Garcia trade in the next 9 months to try and contend in 2020 for a playoff position. There's no reason at this point to be trading away good players when you're a couple starters away from contending for the wild card
__________________
Teacher Says, Every Time Brian Anderson Gets A Hit, An Angel Gets Its Wings.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 06-12-2019, 03:18 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,306
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by central44 View Post
But the pitching--while inconsistent this year due to injuries--isn't exactly a question mark moving forward. We know the Sox rotation is going to include some combination of Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Rodon, Lopez, and Dunning (not all of them) and probably a free agent from somewhere. The fact that the Sox have been unlucky in 2019 and reduced to a shell of their pitching staff shouldn't preclude them from looking at 2020 as a possible contention year when they're hopefully at full strength.

For that reason, I don't want to see them take any more steps backward by trading away guys like Colome and Abreu who might be able to play meaningful roles on a contender in 2020.
Abreu has no team control for 2020. Keeping him for 3 wasted months in 2019 has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not he has a role to play in this teamís future.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.