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  #76  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:21 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is online now
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
The NBA considers tanking a huge problem and has for years. It was why they developed the draft lottery and why the lottery has been continuously tweaked to try to make the draft work as intended. In baseball, Joe Jackson isn't the the Hall of Fame, and will never be in the Hall of Fame because he tanked the 1919 World Series. It's an ethical question. I don't see a great distinction between players intentionally losing for personal profit and owners intentionally losing for profit. The line between owners intentionally losing for profit and intentionally losing to develop a better team can be blurry. The latter can serve as the plausible deniability for the latter.

Baseball subsidized the Sale trade for Moncada et.al. by including higher draft positions that led to the signing of Vaughn. That affects other teams who are honestly trying to win and unable to complete. It creates an incentive to lose, which is bad for the game. Requiring teams to either trade stars for prospects or draft for prospects would be a step in the right direction because American sports don't do relegation.

Baseball, at its highest levels, cares about tanking, at least in the way it is damaging the integrity of the game, which prides itself on integrity and fails so miserably at. The recent cheating scandals are not the credibility issues the commissioner is addressing with his ridiculous postseason proposal.
The NBA has gone through several iterations of the lottery. First it was just 16 cards in a bowl with an equal chance for each team. Then they gave 16 ping pong balls to the worst team and 1 to the best. Then they went all in to protect the worst teams top picks and made it so the worst team could never draft lower than 4 no matter what. They currently have tweaked the odds again to reduce the chance the worst team will pick first and increase the other odds. We saw that payoff big time for the Pelicans last year when they drafted Zion after finishing 13th or something in the lottery. They still protect the worst teams in the draft with a guaranteed slot though not sure if it's 4th or 5th now.

Maybe a lottery works in MLB maybe not. Picks are a less sure thing in baseball than in most of the other sports.

You don't like tanking and I do agree there are teams that seem to be in perpetual tank mode and this year the Pirates (IIRC) have a $40M payroll and are getting subsidized by the commissioner's fund. I can't imagine that will fly well.

Rebuilding remains a valid method for trying to improve the chances in the future of winning a championship when a team is currently stuck in neutral. The Cubs did it. We are witnessing a possible Sox team rebuild about to come to fruition starting this season and showing much more promise than at any time in the last decade for sustained success. I understand you don't like the path they took to get here, but at present it seems to be working, but... time will tell.

I don't have strong feelings about the playoff expansion. I could see a system like the NFL uses working okay after expansion. Anything more than that would be silly in baseball, IMO.
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  #77  
Old 02-24-2020, 12:49 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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I wish we could get a three game, two day series for the wildcard with the first day being a double-header. Potential for resolution after one day and rest for another before facing the Pennant winner.
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  #78  
Old 02-24-2020, 05:48 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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TDog, are you suggesting that MLB should forbid a team from trading an established player for prospects?

Even if the established player is in the last year of his contract?

Even if the established player has indicated he will refuse to sign a contract extension with his team?

If so, I don’t like this idea at all. And more importantly, I don’t think it would work.

I prefer salary caps, 100% revenue sharing, and/or putting additional teams in the NYC/Northeast market (Brooklyn, and New Jersey or Connecticut), plus a global draft that also includes drafting the rights to sign international pro baseball players, as well as the ability to trade the rights to sign those players.

That last point needs additional explanation. Instead of the current posting/free agent system for international pro players, the rights to sign such a player would be subject to the global draft. But if that player and that team couldn’t work out a contract, the team could trade the right to sign that player to another team where he was presumably willing to sign. So when Shohei Otani decided he wants to enter MLB, he would “declare for the draft.” Let’s say the Pirates are drafting first. They draft Otani, but he makes it clear he won’t sign to play in Pittsburgh. So the Pirates could trade his rights to another team (or even get a bidding war going).

All of this together would make every organization much more competitive regardless of market size.
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  #79  
Old 02-24-2020, 07:25 AM
blurry blurry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
In baseball, Joe Jackson isn't the the Hall of Fame, and will never be in the Hall of Fame because he tanked the 1919 World Series. It's an ethical question.
Not because he tanked the World Series - because he was accused of TAKING BRIBES to tank the world series. There's a massive difference.
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  #80  
Old 02-24-2020, 08:16 AM
asindc asindc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
TDog, are you suggesting that MLB should forbid a team from trading an established player for prospects?

Even if the established player is in the last year of his contract?

Even if the established player has indicated he will refuse to sign a contract extension with his team?

If so, I don’t like this idea at all. And more importantly, I don’t think it would work.

I prefer salary caps, 100% revenue sharing, and/or putting additional teams in the NYC/Northeast market (Brooklyn, and New Jersey or Connecticut), plus a global draft that also includes drafting the rights to sign international pro baseball players, as well as the ability to trade the rights to sign those players.

That last point needs additional explanation. Instead of the current posting/free agent system for international pro players, the rights to sign such a player would be subject to the global draft. But if that player and that team couldn’t work out a contract, the team could trade the right to sign that player to another team where he was presumably willing to sign. So when Shohei Otani decided he wants to enter MLB, he would “declare for the draft.” Let’s say the Pirates are drafting first. They draft Otani, but he makes it clear he won’t sign to play in Pittsburgh. So the Pirates could trade his rights to another team (or even get a bidding war going).

All of this together would make every organization much more competitive regardless of market size.
That needs to happen yesterday. There simply is no good rationale for not including international players in the draft.
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  #81  
Old 02-24-2020, 08:47 AM
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FielderJones FielderJones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blurry View Post
Not because he tanked the World Series - because he was accused of TAKING BRIBES to tank the world series. There's a massive difference.

In what universe is .375 is tanking in baseball?

Mod Edi: Please don't hijack this thread with another thread about Joe Jackson's innocence or guilt. If you want to talk about it please start a new thread.

Last edited by voodoochile; 02-24-2020 at 08:57 AM.
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