White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
GO SOX! DSNB!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:37 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sebring Florida
Posts: 11,283
Default Rookie of the Year?

Eloy just hit his 30th homer along with 77 RBI. To be honest I haven't paid much attention to what other rookies are doing except for the Ray's Brandon Lowe but he's been on the IL for months after getting off to a tremendous start. So my question is, does Eloy have a chance to take ROY honors and who is his competion?
__________________
Batting in the second position for the White Sox, number 2, the second baseman Nelson Fox.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:47 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,318
Default

Yordan Alvarez has been ridiculous for the Astros. I think he runs away and hides with the award, possibly as a unanimous selection.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and letís fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-22-2019, 01:53 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sebring Florida
Posts: 11,283
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Yordan Alvarez has been ridiculous for the Astros. I think he runs away and hides with the award, possibly as a unanimous selection.
I guess, his power numbers are just about equal to Eloy's but is batting .316, and he's only had 296 ABs, impressive.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-22-2019, 02:17 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
Chief Skeptic and 2015 Preseason Predictions Contest Winner
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
I guess, his power numbers are just about equal to Eloy's but is batting .316, and he's only had 296 ABs, impressive.
That's true if by "power numbers" you mean HR and RBI.

If you look at the rate stats, Alvarez is slugging .670, and Eloy is at "only" .506. (Which of course is how Alvarez can have 27 HR in 347 plate appearances.)

Plus Alvarez has an OBP a hundred points higher.

Eloy has a good chance to finish second.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-23-2019, 11:11 AM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is online now
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 58,637
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Whether he wins it or not he's definitely white hot right now.

OPS on the season is up to .832
.880 in the second half
1.0+ over lat 30 days
1.25+ over last 15 days

Love how he's starting to pull the ball more. He's gonna win a HR title or two before he retires.
__________________

Riding shotgun on the Sox bandwagon since before there was an Internet...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-23-2019, 01:40 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 18,648
Default

If the White Sox had brought up Jimenez when he was ready to produce as he has been later in the season instead of the start of the season or if they had brought him up last September to acclimate him to the majors, he might be the leading Rookie of the Year candidate. Alvarez didn't come up until June and has been hitting over .300 since (more important than on-base percentage in evaluating a hitter because it's only about hitting). It's something you don't know in the present. Some players do better after they acclimate to a league. Some do great from the start and have great. Some do great at the start and become more ordinary after failing to adjust to the adjustments the league makes to them.

Both Alvarez and Jimenez are 22. Jimenez is seven months older. Alvarez is the hitter I had hoped and expected Jimenez to be, regardless of their other tools, and after figuring out the league Jimenez may well be the hitter Alvarez is. In their rookie seasons, Alvarez has been more impressive and appears to have the brighter future.

Luis Robert, who is about five weeks younger than Alvarez, might be better next year if he had come up this year, or maybe he isn't ready. You don't groom players to be a Rookie of the Year. You groom them to be future Most Valuable Players. Robert and Alvarez played against each other in Cuba when they were 16, but I've never read any comparisons between the two.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-23-2019, 03:04 PM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,084
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
If the White Sox had brought up Jimenez when he was ready to produce as he has been later in the season instead of the start of the season or if they had brought him up last September to acclimate him to the majors, he might be the leading Rookie of the Year candidate. Alvarez didn't come up until June and has been hitting over .300 since (more important than on-base percentage in evaluating a hitter because it's only about hitting). It's something you don't know in the present. Some players do better after they acclimate to a league. Some do great from the start and have great. Some do great at the start and become more ordinary after failing to adjust to the adjustments the league makes to them.

Both Alvarez and Jimenez are 22. Jimenez is seven months older. Alvarez is the hitter I had hoped and expected Jimenez to be, regardless of their other tools, and after figuring out the league Jimenez may well be the hitter Alvarez is. In their rookie seasons, Alvarez has been more impressive and appears to have the brighter future.

Luis Robert, who is about five weeks younger than Alvarez, might be better next year if he had come up this year, or maybe he isn't ready. You don't groom players to be a Rookie of the Year. You groom them to be future Most Valuable Players. Robert and Alvarez played against each other in Cuba when they were 16, but I've never read any comparisons between the two.
This mirrors the point Jeff Passan continues to make about us and why he thinks we'll be in the 60-70 win territory next year too. We don't prepare our minor leaguers like other teams because we are overly concerned with arbitration. Look at the player Eloy is now. There is no doubt that if he was afforded the opportunity to cut his teeth in August/September last year that he'd be in the MVP conversation right now (instead of not even in the ROY conversation). It's the little things like that that have a huge impact on our season. Expect the same next year with Luis and Nick.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-23-2019, 03:12 PM
kobo kobo is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lake in the Hills
Posts: 5,815
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
This mirrors the point Jeff Passan continues to make about us and why he thinks we'll be in the 60-70 win territory next year too. We don't prepare our minor leaguers like other teams because we are overly concerned with arbitration. Look at the player Eloy is now. There is no doubt that if he was afforded the opportunity to cut his teeth in August/September last year that he'd be in the MVP conversation right now (instead of not even in the ROY conversation). It's the little things like that that have a huge impact on our season. Expect the same next year with Luis and Nick.
1. Passan is an idiot and frankly can go pound sand. I don't value his opinion at all.
2. We don't prepare minor leaguers like other teams?? Bull****. Complete and total bull**** and you know it's bull**** but hey, continue to say so to fit your narrative.
3. Who cares if Eloy would have been a MVP contender this year if he had been called up last year? Why does that matter? Unless the team is playing in October I don't care about the MVP. The only reason anyone would care about Eloy being an MVP is to say "look, we have a MVP on our team!!". That does nothing for me.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-23-2019, 04:14 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobo View Post
1. Passan is an idiot and frankly can go pound sand. I don't value his opinion at all.
2. We don't prepare minor leaguers like other teams?? Bull****. Complete and total bull**** and you know it's bull**** but hey, continue to say so to fit your narrative.
3. Who cares if Eloy would have been a MVP contender this year if he had been called up last year? Why does that matter? Unless the team is playing in October I don't care about the MVP. The only reason anyone would care about Eloy being an MVP is to say "look, we have a MVP on our team!!". That does nothing for me.
Exactly. Eloy being a little bit better in April and May was not going to be the difference between making and missing the playoffs. I am in favor of seeing the White Sox do what every other team does with service time.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-23-2019, 04:16 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 18,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobo View Post
...
3. Who cares if Eloy would have been a MVP contender this year if he had been called up last year? Why does that matter? Unless the team is playing in October I don't care about the MVP. The only reason anyone would care about Eloy being an MVP is to say "look, we have a MVP on our team!!". That does nothing for me.
Obviously, it does nothing for the Angels and hasn't for awhile.

I have no idea who Jeff Passan is. I've watched enough baseball at enough levels over enough years that I don't have to shop around for opinions and perspectives to repeat. Any similarity between my views and Jeff Passan, living or dead, is purely coincidental, although you certainly have the right to vehemently disagree with my opinion. For that matter, I can't imagine awarding an MVP vote to someone who didn't lead and/or inspire a team to success while excelling as an individual, perhaps an old-school concept, but one that may have been lost in my MVP reference.

I wondered a year ago if bringing up Jimenez might help his development, and I've wondered this year if bringing up Robert might help his development. That isn't the same as criticizing the team for not preparing their minor league talent. Certainly, the Astros could have brought up Alvarez at the beginning of the year if they were thinking more about development than service time.

I have heard it postulated that the Cubs might have gone to the 2015 World Series if they hadn't been more concerned with Kris Bryant's service time than winning games. Now because of the arc of the team there is speculation that Bryant could be traded before he reaches that extra year the Cubs were getting by not bringing him up at the beginning of 2015, a season where the Cubs won 97 games and finished three games out of first with the second wild card. They didn't win any NLCS games against the Mets in 2015. Still, the Mets only won 90 games and things might have broken differently for the Cubs had they had the homefield advantage with three more wins (at least one being against the Cardinals).

Jimenez is a better player now than he was in April or May. I hope he is still better next April and May. If the White Sox are only in 60-70 win territory next year, which I believe could be likely, it won't be because of the way they prepared Jimenez or Robert or Madrigal even Moncada or Anderson. It certainly won't be because they didn't sign Machado. It will be because they don't have the pitching needed to win games.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-23-2019, 04:39 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 16,250
Default

Eh, Jose Abreu won the ROY back in 2014 which was sandwiched between two abysmal seasons for the team. That only made me happy for about just the 30 minutes after the announcement was made. Eloy's probably not gonna win it this year, which is fine. I'm more interested to see what he does next season as he appears to be hitting his stride now.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-23-2019, 04:54 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 18,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JermaineDye05 View Post
Eh, Jose Abreu won the ROY back in 2014 which was sandwiched between two abysmal seasons for the team. That only made me happy for about just the 30 minutes after the announcement was made. Eloy's probably not gonna win it this year, which is fine. I'm more interested to see what he does next season as he appears to be hitting his stride now.

There was the year that Andrew Bailey beat out Gordon Beckham (although Beckham won the player-voted Sporting News rookie honor). Neither player made the expected impact, although Beckham homered against the White Sox on Sunday. Bailey, heavily promoted for the honor by the A's to boost his trade value, is out of baseball after peaking as a rookie closer.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-23-2019, 05:16 PM
XplodingScorbord XplodingScorbord is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Just off the DFW flight path
Posts: 1,167
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
This mirrors the point Jeff Passan continues to make about us and why he thinks we'll be in the 60-70 win territory next year too. We don't prepare our minor leaguers like other teams because we are overly concerned with arbitration. Look at the player Eloy is now. There is no doubt that if he was afforded the opportunity to cut his teeth in August/September last year that he'd be in the MVP conversation right now (instead of not even in the ROY conversation). It's the little things like that that have a huge impact on our season. Expect the same next year with Luis and Nick.
There is no doubt that had he come up in August or September last year, Eloy would have suffered a career-ending injury. See? I can make definitive statements supported by no evidence too!
__________________
**Xploding Scorbord**
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-23-2019, 06:12 PM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,084
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XplodingScorbord View Post
There is no doubt that had he come up in August or September last year, Eloy would have suffered a career-ending injury. See? I can make definitive statements supported by no evidence too!

Eloy needed about 200 at bats to figure it out at this level. The player he's been since he's figured it out is MVP caliber. If he got those at bats last year, or even half and half this year, his numbers would put him in the MVP race. It's pretty sound logic, unless you're trying not to see the logic.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-23-2019, 06:27 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 18,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Eloy needed about 200 at bats to figure it out at this level. The player he's been since he's figured it out is MVP caliber. If he got those at bats last year, or even half and half this year, his numbers would put him in the MVP race. It's pretty sound logic, unless you're trying not to see the logic.

The funny thing is, Jimenez didn't even look ready tin spring training, which is odd because there are plenty of hitters who need 200 plate appearances to figure things out who have great springs. There are also players who don't, i.e. Yordan Alvarez or Fernando Tatis Jr. The rookie shortstop the Cubs were forced to bring up in September has looked pretty good out of the gate of his career, but I don't know if he will ever look as good again.

The fact is, Jimenez will have to prove that he is as good next year as he has been late this year. I'm certainly not going to criticize the team for holding him back last year, especially with the way he looked in spring training. He might even have benefited from some more time in AAA, but his contract extension took that possibility off the table.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:30 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.