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  #31  
Old 05-02-2019, 06:14 PM
I_Liked_Manuel I_Liked_Manuel is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Those employees should be subject to replacement, just like any other organizational employees who consistently fail to produce results.
Seems like a subjective assumption that 'advanced' analytics have a place in the game and should be playing a role in making the game borderline unwatchable

If you've never seen a baseball game, heard about it, read about it, etc - would you watch a game in 2019 based on what 'advanced' analytics have done to it from how the players approach it and how the managers manage it?
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  #32  
Old 05-02-2019, 10:02 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel View Post
Seems like a subjective assumption that 'advanced' analytics have a place in the game and should be playing a role in making the game borderline unwatchable

If you've never seen a baseball game, heard about it, read about it, etc - would you watch a game in 2019 based on what 'advanced' analytics have done to it from how the players approach it and how the managers manage it?
Calling the game “borderline unwatchable” isn’t subjective?
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  #33  
Old 05-02-2019, 11:54 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Subjective or not, it appears to be the majority opinion in the country at the moment.
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  #34  
Old 05-03-2019, 08:14 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Subjective or not, it appears to be the majority opinion in the country at the moment.
Not really. The attendance numbers were down last year, but the TV numbers were up. People are not ignoring the sport entirely. They are just going to fewer games in person and watching more games on TV.
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  #35  
Old 05-03-2019, 09:09 AM
Zakath Zakath is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Not really. The attendance numbers were down last year, but the TV numbers were up. People are not ignoring the sport entirely. They are just going to fewer games in person and watching more games on TV.
And that has a lot to do with the lifestyles people lead. The 9-to-5 workday for many being a relic of the past, it's hard to go home, get the family together, and head to the park for a 7:10 first pitch, then get out by 10-10:30-11, get home, fall asleep, and then wake up the next day and try to do it all again.

Not to mention that a trip to the park will easily eat up a day's wages (and then some) for some families.
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  #36  
Old 05-03-2019, 09:42 AM
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And that has a lot to do with the lifestyles people lead. The 9-to-5 workday for many being a relic of the past, it's hard to go home, get the family together, and head to the park for a 7:10 first pitch, then get out by 10-10:30-11, get home, fall asleep, and then wake up the next day and try to do it all again.

Not to mention that a trip to the park will easily eat up a day's wages (and then some) for some families.
Yep people are far busier than they were a few short decades ago. Kids have a lot more after school activities, parents are working longer hours, more people live further from the ballpark, etc.

The growth of streaming services, online gaming, more restaurants, bigger TV and other things give people much more entertainment options also, especially with school still in session.
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  #37  
Old 05-03-2019, 09:53 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Just out of curiosity, I checked some ticket prices around the Midwest for this upcoming Sunday afternoon. Along with the White Sox website, I checked the websites for the Tigers, Indians, and Brewers. I wanted to find the absolute lowest-priced ticket in each ballpark that guaranteed a seat with an in-person view of the action (no standing-room-only tickets, no specialty areas without a view of the field, etc.).

The best price—by far—was the White Sox $10 seats. The Indians were next at $17, followed by the Tigers at $18, and the Brewers were the most expensive at $20.

The White Sox and Brewers have giveaways available, so some of the early-arriving fans will get more than just a seat for their money. Some of the fans in Chicago will be getting youth soccer-style White Sox shirts, while some of the fans in Milwaukee will be getting a Jeremy Jeffress bobblehead. The Indians don’t have a giveaway, but they are offering a time window of discounted concession items for two hours before the first pitch.

I can’t speak for any discounts or promotions that these teams may have offered for people who purchased in advance. This is merely an indication of the price that potential walk-up purchasers will pay if they decide to treat their families to a day at the ballpark.
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  #38  
Old 05-03-2019, 09:53 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Yep people are far busier than they were a few short decades ago. Kids have a lot more after school activities, parents are working longer hours, more people live further from the ballpark, etc.

The growth of streaming services, online gaming, more restaurants, bigger TV and other things give people much more entertainment options also, especially with school still in session.
Side note- when i was growing up, White Sox night games started at 800pm for many years in the 70's- unimaginable today.
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  #39  
Old 05-03-2019, 10:05 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Yep people are far busier than they were a few short decades ago. Kids have a lot more after school activities, parents are working longer hours, more people live further from the ballpark, etc.

The growth of streaming services, online gaming, more restaurants, bigger TV and other things give people much more entertainment options also, especially with school still in session.

Even MLB isn't rationalizing the attendance problems. If MLB believed the problem is not in the MLB game, baseball wouldn't be be looking at desperate fundamental changes in the way the game is played to make it more appealing.
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  #40  
Old 05-03-2019, 10:06 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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This article is pretty interesting-a few years old-

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/20...isual-analysis

I think the real prescription is to:

Go back to calling the true strike zone vs. the "tea cup" of the modern game and to deaden the ball to where it used to be in the 70's and early 80's (starting in the late 80's- it seems like the ball has been "juiced" several times.

I think this would reduce pitch counts and overall plate appearances the real source of games going from the 2.5 hour average of the 1950s-1980s to the current average of 3+ hours.
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  #41  
Old 05-03-2019, 10:32 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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TomBradley72 is right. If MLB wants to do something, “deadening” the ball is the quickest and least awkward change that MLB can make. It may be something as simple as applying more Blackburne mud to the balls, which would require no changes at Rawlings.
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  #42  
Old 05-03-2019, 10:35 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
This article is pretty interesting-a few years old-

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/20...isual-analysis

I think the real prescription is to:

Go back to calling the true strike zone vs. the "tea cup" of the modern game and to deaden the ball to where it used to be in the 70's and early 80's (starting in the late 80's- it seems like the ball has been "juiced" several times.

I think this would reduce pitch counts and overall plate appearances the real source of games going from the 2.5 hour average of the 1950s-1980s to the current average of 3+ hours.
I'm not really sure that would do much to speed up the game. I think one of the biggest things that slows down the game is all the pitching changes and that's not going away anytime soon.

As recently as 1993, there were 10 pitchers who threw more than 230+ innings. There were four pitchers who had at least 10 complete games. Even in 2000, there were nine pitchers who threw at least 215 innings. Last season only one pitcher threw 215 innings.

I think someone actually looked at two games with similar scores, one in 1984 and the other in 2014 and found the pitching changes and batters stepping out of the box added a LOT of time to the game.
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  #43  
Old 05-03-2019, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Even MLB isn't rationalizing the attendance problems. If MLB believed the problem is not in the MLB game, baseball wouldn't be be looking at desperate fundamental changes in the way the game is played to make it more appealing.
Or maybe like any business they are simply always looking for ways to draw in more business and this is the latest effort.
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  #44  
Old 05-03-2019, 11:24 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I'm not really sure that would do much to speed up the game. I think one of the biggest things that slows down the game is all the pitching changes and that's not going away anytime soon.
Starting next season, a reliever must face at least three batters (or get hurt) before he can be removed in the middle of an inning.

Here is an article from March that breaks down a painfully slow half-inning that is indicative of the problem. Coincidentally, the manager in charge at the time was none other than Rick Renteria, but this is not meant to blame him individually for something that is a league-wide problem.

https://www.mlb.com/news/how-3-batte...hange-baseball
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  #45  
Old 05-03-2019, 01:20 PM
Sox-o-phile Sox-o-phile is offline
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I'm not really sure that would do much to speed up the game. I think one of the biggest things that slows down the game is all the pitching changes and that's not going away anytime soon.

Who started this?
Sparky "Captain Hook" Anderson, Tony LaRussa, Billy Martin, Jeff Torborg or someone else?
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