"Sox Management Owes More To Fans..."

[RealFan]

I became a full season STH in 2008 (good timing I know) without any partners. For me, the advent of Stub Hub has been a god send and I have been able to sell most if not all games at a reasonable value so that my "loss" is mitigated.

Similar to the STH's who have posted before me in this thread, I derive the greatest value from 1) attending games in great seats that I know I control for as long as I can afford them, 2) watching my beloved White Sox in person, 3) and enjoying that experience with as many fellow Sox fans as possible.

What someone else paid to sit in the bleachers, upper deck, near my section or even in my row is not something that I worry about. I get that the Sox will have to price tix lower sometimes to get people to the park. And similar to the 2006 season, I understand that if demand is high that the secondary market will allow STHs to make a profit.

But I'm not in this for the money. I've been blessed by God with the ability to afford these tickets without concern and having grown up lower middle class and attending one game every other year, I truly am thankful for the opportunity.

I think Brook should do a survey of STHs. I very much appreciate his desire to protect us as we are the ones most willing to commit dollars to the organization year in and year out. But I also think he needs to put himself in our shoes to understand our motivations and desires.

I summarize as follows - the value of a STH's EXPERIENCE at the park goes up when attendance is higher. You feel part of something bigger and that alone mitigates any negative feelings about the prices paid by others in the park.

This is a great thread - I hope the Sox see it and react accordingly.

GO WHITE SOX!!!

[Thome25]

Originally Posted by RealFan

I became a full season STH in 2008 (good timing I know) without any partners. For me, the advent of Stub Hub has been a god send and I have been able to sell most if not all games at a reasonable value so that my "loss" is mitigated.

Similar to the STH's who have posted before me in this thread, I derive the greatest value from 1) attending games in great seats that I know I control for as long as I can afford them, 2) watching my beloved White Sox in person, 3) and enjoying that experience with as many fellow Sox fans as possible.

What someone else paid to sit in the bleachers, upper deck, near my section or even in my row is not something that I worry about. I get that the Sox will have to price tix lower sometimes to get people to the park. And similar to the 2006 season, I understand that if demand is high that the secondary market will allow STHs to make a profit.

But I'm not in this for the money. I've been blessed by God with the ability to afford these tickets without concern and having grown up lower middle class and attending one game every other year, I truly am thankful for the opportunity.

I think Brook should do a survey of STHs. I very much appreciate his desire to protect us as we are the ones most willing to commit dollars to the organization year in and year out. But I also think he needs to put himself in our shoes to understand our motivations and desires.

I summarize as follows - the value of a STH's EXPERIENCE at the park goes up when attendance is higher. You feel part of something bigger and that alone mitigates any negative feelings about the prices paid by others in the park.

This is a great thread - I hope the Sox see it and react accordingly.

GO WHITE SOX!!!

This post among others from STHs in this thread is very well said. You and the rest of the STHs should reiterate your feedback to Brooks directly IMO.

[Jerko]

How about a graphic on tv during games, or on the scoreboards at the Cell? Would it have been so hard to flash, say, during Monday's game vs the Cubs: "Upper deck/lower corner tickets for the upcoming Brewers series are X amount of dollars", then LEAVE IT THAT WAY? No, they try to raise it as high as they can for as long as they can, then nobody comes, then they try it again when the next team comes to town and the circle of life goes on and on and on and on. street lights, people......oh, sorry.

[RealFan]

Originally Posted by Thome25

This post among others from STHs in this thread is very well said. You and the rest of the STHs should reiterate your feedback to Brooks directly IMO.

Thanks - I actually just sent him an e-mail on all of this. I was waiting for Brooks' response to be posted in this thread before I wrote my e-mail.

[Dan H]

Originally Posted by dickallen15

56.1 % capacity last night. Premium lower boxes were only $85 on ticketmaster. Bleachers only $57. Friday night, perfect weather. Milwaukee, 90 miles away, you'd think at least SOME Brewers fans would make the trek.

How many more of these until Brooks realizes he's wrong? I'm starting to get the feeling the White Sox really like the low attendance, because its something they use as a crutch. No one asks them about revenue, which up until at least this year, puts them well into the top half of MLB, usually even in the top 10. Just attendance. They had the 4th or 5th highest ticket price in baseball the last few years. They don't lower the price, they keep it the same except raise it drastically if you don't want to buy the tickets months in advance. Sure, they offer "dynamic deals" on upper deck seats beyond the foul pouls which rarely are sold, and in all fairness, if you didn't want to wait until game day, you could have got a bleacher seat for $38 on a "dynamic deal".

I read the exchange with Brooks, and really his argument is he knows everything is overpriced but you can go on a Monday and get a seat where you can't pick up a ball for $7. I understand he wants to "protect" the season ticketholders. If I were in his position, I would feel the same way, but again, he talks out of both sides of his mouth. The big accounts he really doesn't want to piss off are the premium seat holders. Those seats (premium lower box, premium club box, Scout Seats, Gold Coast Tickets Club) aren't available except for scattered tickets in the worst locations of those locations. If Brooks is willing to sell lower boxes for x amount using a code, but charges almost double that for people who can't navigate the internet to find these codes, how is that "protecting" the season ticketholder? How is not giving season ticketholders the 50% discount on Monday's protecting them? Notice a few years ago, the White Sox did away with the 50% discount on Mondays for premium lower and premium club boxes. You know who Brooks really wants to protect, and lowering prices in other sections isn't going to set them off.

I understand too that the Sox have to do what they can please season ticket holders. They invest more money and time than the average fan. But there problems still remain no matter how season ticket holders are appeased.

The current ownership understood one thing very well when they purchsed the team in 1981: Baseball economics was changing and they had to appeal to the season ticket holder more and then to the corporate fan. What they didn't understand was the average fan began to feel left out in the cold. Once fans who went to 4-5 games a year were considered the backbone of the team fan base. Not so much anymore. And the problem this causes for attendance is obvious since the overwhleming majority of fans don't have the money or time to purchase season tickets and they certainly will not end sitting in a sky box.

I realize that the White Sox, as well as any other organization, can't make everybody happy all the time. But they should at least understand history in that Baseball was a working class game. It can't be said it is that anymoe.

[kittle42]

I will say that it very much seems like the Sox just want to keep crowds at 25k or below.

I mean, I know they don't, but their baffling logic only leads to that end.

Basically, they're full of **** and I'm getting a little sick of it. It doesn't help when I travel the country and go to stadiums that are much nicer, and cheaper, and talk with STHs in those towns that don't seem to have nearly the level of backlash toward their team that I do.

[hawkjt]

Originally Posted by RealFan

I became a full season STH in 2008 (good timing I know) without any partners. For me, the advent of Stub Hub has been a god send and I have been able to sell most if not all games at a reasonable value so that my "loss" is mitigated.

Similar to the STH's who have posted before me in this thread, I derive the greatest value from 1) attending games in great seats that I know I control for as long as I can afford them, 2) watching my beloved White Sox in person, 3) and enjoying that experience with as many fellow Sox fans as possible.

What someone else paid to sit in the bleachers, upper deck, near my section or even in my row is not something that I worry about. I get that the Sox will have to price tix lower sometimes to get people to the park. And similar to the 2006 season, I understand that if demand is high that the secondary market will allow STHs to make a profit.

But I'm not in this for the money. I've been blessed by God with the ability to afford these tickets without concern and having grown up lower middle class and attending one game every other year, I truly am thankful for the opportunity.

I think Brook should do a survey of STHs. I very much appreciate his desire to protect us as we are the ones most willing to commit dollars to the organization year in and year out. But I also think he needs to put himself in our shoes to understand our motivations and desires.

I summarize as follows - the value of a STH's EXPERIENCE at the park goes up when attendance is higher. You feel part of something bigger and that alone mitigates any negative feelings about the prices paid by others in the park.

This is a great thread - I hope the Sox see it and react accordingly.

GO WHITE SOX!!!

Please send this to Brooks....good to hear from a STH who has this viewpoint.

[Hitmen77]

Originally Posted by Dan H

The current ownership understood one thing very well when they purchsed the team in 1981: Baseball economics was changing and they had to appeal to the season ticket holder more and then to the corporate fan. What they didn't understand was the average fan began to feel left out in the cold. Once fans who went to 4-5 games a year were considered the backbone of the team fan base. Not so much anymore. And the problem this causes for attendance is obvious since the overwhleming majority of fans don't have the money or time to purchase season tickets and they certainly will not end sitting in a sky box.

I realize that the White Sox, as well as any other organization, can't make everybody happy all the time. But they should at least understand history in that Baseball was a working class game. It can't be said it is that anymoe.

This might be at the core of this franchise's problem. JR and Co. have owned the team for more than 30 years now. There have been good times and bad during those 3 decades. But one overarching constant that I have felt from the very beginning in 1981 is that they are a little too focused on corporate fans while making average fans feel left out in the cold.

Even the way New Comiskey was built seems to be around the luxury suites that pushed the upper deck even higher. I know that's just part of baseball economics today, but it really seemed to stand out at the new park (are some of those suites still empty to this day?).

When was the last time most fans saw the 2005 WS trophy in person? It's nowhere to be seen at the park. Last I heard, it's on display in the luxury suites area. I don't know if that's still true or not, but I believe this was the case the last couple of years. I've gone to Anaheim and Phoenix and they have their trophy prominently on display at the main entrance or in the main concourse. Of course, no one stays away from the Cell because the WS trophy is not on display (that's not what I'm suggesting), but to me, this is just very representative of the mentality of Sox ownership....and where their focus has always been.

This has been going on so long that this simply won't change until ownership changes. That doesn't mean they won't spend money on the team (as long as the revenue is there). But there has always been a penny wise, pound foolish philosophy to the current ownership.

[amsteel]

I think the Sox have figured out that the maximum on their revenue curve falls around attendances between 22K-25K.

Someone earlier mentioned that they get out of some extra payments if attendance is below 1.9M they avoid some taxes. Also, on a game to game basis with the current prices, fewer fans, while meaning less concession revenue, means a higher profit per ticket, and lower costs regarding security, concession workers, parking attendants, cleaning, etc.

I would assume that the per fan concession revenue drops as the attendance grows.

[LITTLE NELL]

Originally Posted by amsteel

I think the Sox have figured out that the maximum on their revenue curve falls around attendances between 22K-25K.

Someone earlier mentioned that they get out of some extra payments if attendance is below 1.9M they avoid some taxes. Also, on a game to game basis with the current prices, fewer fans, while meaning less concession revenue, means a higher profit per ticket, and lower costs regarding security, concession workers, parking attendants, cleaning, etc.

I would assume that the per fan concession revenue drops as the attendance grows.

What a way to run a business as our fan base shrinks and we send more fans to the Urinal.

[Frater Perdurabo]

I agree with these last few posts. Sox ownership may be many things, but they are not business-stupid.

They would like to have working class business, but they are not going to put much of an effort into attracting it.

[SI1020]

They may not be stupid but they've always been arrogant. Eventually the my way or the highway attitude comes out. It has been that way since 1981.

[Wedema]

Originally Posted by Hitmen77

This might be at the core of this franchise's problem. JR and Co. have owned the team for more than 30 years now. There have been good times and bad during those 3 decades. But one overarching constant that I have felt from the very beginning in 1981 is that they are a little too focused on corporate fans while making average fans feel left out in the cold.

Even the way New Comiskey was built seems to be around the luxury suites that pushed the upper deck even higher. I know that's just part of baseball economics today, but it really seemed to stand out at the new park (are some of those suites still empty to this day?).

When was the last time most fans saw the 2005 WS trophy in person? It's nowhere to be seen at the park. Last I heard, it's on display in the luxury suites area. I don't know if that's still true or not, but I believe this was the case the last couple of years. I've gone to Anaheim and Phoenix and they have their trophy prominently on display at the main entrance or in the main concourse. Of course, no one stays away from the Cell because the WS trophy is not on display (that's not what I'm suggesting), but to me, this is just very representative of the mentality of Sox ownership....and where their focus has always been.

This has been going on so long that this simply won't change until ownership changes. That doesn't mean they won't spend money on the team (as long as the revenue is there). But there has always been a penny wise, pound foolish philosophy to the current ownership.

The World Series Trophy is in the Scout Seat Lounge area.

[BainesHOF]

Originally Posted by Wedema

The World Series Trophy is in the Scout Seat Lounge area.

Yep, and so are the items that used to be on display in the team's Hall of Fame.

Brutal beyond belief.

[chisoxfanatic]

Originally Posted by BainesHOF

Yep, and so are the items that used to be on display in the team's Hall of Fame.

Brutal beyond belief.

Important team memorabilia never has any business in premium seating areas.