Lineup concern

[voodoochile]

Originally Posted by TDog

If Dunn this year wasn't being compared to Dunn last year, he would be seen as having a dismal year, or at least mired in a terrible slump. But there is room for improvement, and maybe he will return to a more productive form. He needs to be a better third-place hitter, but I don't know if moving other players around in the order would do the team much good.

Just to be picky, I don't think any person on pace to hit 50+ HR for the year at the All-Star break can ever be considered to be having a "dismal" season.

[everafan]

Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo

Maybe Dunn should get more off days against LHP. Not all the time, but sometimes.

This! I know Rios is the natural choice for #3 but I wouldn't mess with the lineup given the production. But there is no reason that Dunn can't sit against lefties eery once in a while. On those days move Rios to #3.

[Noneck]

Originally Posted by voodoochile

Just to be picky, I don't think any person on pace to hit 50+ HR for the year at the All-Star break can ever be considered to be having a "dismal" season.

And dont forget 120 rbi's

[soxfan123]

Player AVG/OBP/SLG

AJ: .285/338/.527
Pauly: .329/.404/.528
Gordon: .243/.291/.380
Alexei: .266/.287/.341
Tank: .255/.296/.442
De Aza: .283/.351/.401
Rios: .318/.352/.522
Dunn: .208/.357/.502
Youk (combined): .262/.341/.426

Dunn still has an OPS of .859 (4th best behind Pauly, Rios, and AJ). The problem is he is streaky. If he is hitting well, he can carry the offense. But when he's striking out and not driving the ball it's really only benefitting the lineup when he walks. Might be worth considering putting him down in the order and when he starts hitting well again put him back up. Ventura seems to like to keep a steady lineup though.

[kobo]

Originally Posted by everafan

This! I know Rios is the natural choice for #3 but I wouldn't mess with the lineup given the production. But there is no reason that Dunn can't sit against lefties eery once in a while. On those days move Rios to #3.

If Dunn sits against a lefty then who replaces Dunn? There isn't anyone on the bench who is better than Dunn.

[Frater Perdurabo]

Originally Posted by kobo

If Dunn sits against a lefty then who replaces Dunn? There isn't anyone on the bench who is better than Dunn.

Ideally we would have a righty-hitting catcher who hits LHP decently who could catch against LHP, allowing AJ to DH occasionally against LHP, and thus allowing Dunn to sit occasionally against LHP.

[thehawkeroo]

Didn't some guy bring that up to rongie during the pre game show Sunday? The guy said they should switch rios and Dunn. Rongie shot him down. Very rudely, I must say.

[TomBradley72]

Originally Posted by kobo

If Dunn sits against a lefty then who replaces Dunn? There isn't anyone on the bench who is better than Dunn.

Escobar hits LHP better than RHP (.318 in 22 ABs- so a limited sample size in MLB)- so the best option if you rest Dunn is is Escobar at 3rd, Youk goes to 1st, PK to DH- or if Escobar can handle LF- Tank could move to DH.

I think Escobar is emerging as a spark plug- you could slot him at #2 and Youk could take #3 when Dunn sits-or put him at#8 or #9.

[cards press box]

Originally Posted by voodoochile

Just to be picky, I don't think any person on pace to hit 50+ HR for the year at the All-Star break can ever be considered to be having a "dismal" season.

You are not being picky; you're absolutely right. I was just playing with the numbers and wondered what Dunn's current stats would be if extrapolated over a full season. Check this out: Dunn is currently on pace to hit 48 homers, drive in 116 runs and take 130 walks. He currently has an on base percentage of .357.

What's more, Dunn balances the lineup as he provides a power threat from the left side. Without Dunn, the only lefty power threat would be from AJ.

Dunn's career average is .242. I just don't see the point in getting hung up on the fact that he doesn't hit for a very high average.

Earl Weaver -- who knew a thing or two about managing a ballclub -- never worried about what a player couldn't do. He focused on what a player could do. And, believe me, Weaver would have gladly found a spot for Dunn and his 40+ home runs.

[slavko]

Originally Posted by thehawkeroo

Didn't some guy bring that up to rongie during the pre game show Sunday? The guy said they should switch rios and Dunn. Rongie shot him down. Very rudely, I must say.

Heard it. Rongey ignored the guy's valid argument and clung to the point that Dunn's OBP was higher without saying that it was only .005 higher. No mention of superior baserunning ability either. Rongey is getting irritating.

[FoulTerritory]

Originally Posted by slavko

Heard it. Rongey ignored the guy's valid argument and clung to the point that Dunn's OBP was higher without saying that it was only .005 higher. No mention of superior baserunning ability either. Rongey is getting irritating.

Yeah, what is wrong with Rongey these days? He seems to be getting more and more irrational. I think he's become so jaded by bad callers that he now works on the assumption that virtually every caller that disagrees on any issue with Robin or Kenny must, by virtue of being a caller, be wrong.

[voodoochile]

Originally Posted by FoulTerritory

Yeah, what is wrong with Rongey these days? He seems to be getting more and more irrational. I think he's become so jaded by bad callers that he now works on the assumption that virtually every caller that disagrees on any issue with Robin or Kenny must, by virtue of being a caller, be wrong.

It's a common phenomenon for mods too. I sometimes have to read things three times to figure out if it's a joke or not when I don't know the poster. Talk radio is even worse because there's no filter and no control.

[Frater Perdurabo]

Originally Posted by TomBradley72

Escobar hits LHP better than RHP (.318 in 22 ABs- so a limited sample size in MLB)- so the best option if you rest Dunn is is Escobar at 3rd, Youk goes to 1st, PK to DH... I think Escobar is emerging as a spark plug- you could slot him at #2 and Youk could take #3 when Dunn sits-or put him at#8 or #9.

That's an interesting idea.

[JB98]

Originally Posted by FoulTerritory

Yeah, what is wrong with Rongey these days? He seems to be getting more and more irrational. I think he's become so jaded by bad callers that he now works on the assumption that virtually every caller that disagrees on any issue with Robin or Kenny must, by virtue of being a caller, be wrong.

I think you're right about that. Rongey often shoots down reasonable dissent these days, quite possibly because of the high volume of idiot calls he receives.

Now, I happen to agree with Chris that Dunn should stay put in the 3 spot. But my opinion has nothing to do with anyone's OBP. I'm a big "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" guy. I see no reason to make adjustments while the club is winning consistently. If they start losing, then maybe you shake it up.

I was always enraged by all the tinkering Manuel and Guillen did during their tenures here. Ventura seems to have more patience and a more steady hand, and that happens to be my preference as far as a manager goes.

I always heard that Ozzie was "a players' manager," but I'm not so sure given how easily he flies off the handle. His emotions seem to run hot and cold, just like many of the fans who call Rongey's show. If were a player, I think I would prefer Robin's more even-keel style of managing.

[TDog]

Originally Posted by cards press box

You are not being picky; you're absolutely right. I was just playing with the numbers and wondered what Dunn's current stats would be if extrapolated over a full season. Check this out: Dunn is currently on pace to hit 48 homers, drive in 116 runs and take 130 walks. He currently has an on base percentage of .357.

What's more, Dunn balances the lineup as he provides a power threat from the left side. Without Dunn, the only lefty power threat would be from AJ.

Dunn's career average is .242. I just don't see the point in getting hung up on the fact that he doesn't hit for a very high average.

Earl Weaver -- who knew a thing or two about managing a ballclub -- never worried about what a player couldn't do. He focused on what a player could do. And, believe me, Weaver would have gladly found a spot for Dunn and his 40+ home runs.

I didn't know that you were tight with Earl Weaver. Next time you talk with him, ask him if he would trade his favorite No. 3 hitter, Frank Robinson, who walked more than he struck out in 1969 but only managed 32 home runs while hitting .308, for a .210 hitter on pace for 50 home runs and 250 strikeouts.

I don't know him, but I believe I heard Weaver say in an interview once that he didn't like giving away outs, which is why he never sacrificed and he liked hitters who made contact and didn't strike out too much. But I might be mistaken. Still, Weaver's big home run hitter was Boog Powell who in 14 seasons with Baltimore only struck out more than 100 times once, and that was before Weaver was named manager.

Dunn's numbers are ridiculously silly, and not in a good way. No 50-home run hitter has ever struck out so much or had such a miserably poor batting average. Many have hit .300 (hitting being something that involves hitting.) Johnny Mize actually only had 40 strikeouts when he hit his 50th home run in 1947 and he hit .300. People generally aren't generally regulars in major league lineups when they treat seemingly every at bat like a round of home run derby. Part of the reason for that is that managers don't have the patience with players who have so little success at the plate punctuated by occasional home runs. I don't know Earl Weaver, so I can't ask him if he is one of them.

RBIs are important. It's an MVP stat. Teams with the most RBIs win games more often than the teams that put the most runners on base. But I am guessing that a healthy Carlos Quentin hitting third in the White Sox lineup this year would have at least as many RBIs without as many home runs. I shudder to think what Edwin Encarnacion would be doing hitting third in the White Sox lineup with almost as many home runs as Dunn. Both Quentin and Encarnacion are right handed but actually hit both righties and lefties better than Dunn.

The White Sox, though, are stuck with Dunn.