Second Half Blues

[Frater Perdurabo]

LA may have a higher daily average temperature than Chicago in July and August, but their drier air means the temperature drops more quickly when the sun sets. However, while on average there is greater temperature fluctuation on each individual day in LA than in Chicago, there is much less seasonal variability between April, July and September in LA than there is in Chicago.

[Lip Man 1]

In Sunday's Sun-Times an A.L. scout had an interesting comment on what happened to the Sox this year in September:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/15586...xt-season.html

Lip

[LITTLE NELL]

It's just one of those things. If there is a reason its we just we have not had the players. How many Cy Young pitchers have we had? Any Triple Crown threats? Any Hall of Famers? Maybe PK. ( Thomas is going to the HOF but was not around for most of the years in question) How many 5 tools players in that time, Rios and who else?
If we had the same players all the time that Lip has mentioned then I say we have a bunch of losers, thats not the case, just a bunch of players that were decent but not just good enough.
It comes down to JR running a big market team like a small market team.

[BigKlu59]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

It's just one of those things. If there is a reason its we just we have not had the players. How many Cy Young pitchers have we had? Any Triple Crown threats? Any Hall of Famers? Maybe PK. ( Thomas is going to the HOF but was not around for most of the years in question) How many 5 tools players in that time, Rios and who else?
If we had the same players all the time that Lip has mentioned then I say we have a bunch of losers, thats not the case, just a bunch of players that were decent but not just good enough.
It comes down to JR running a big market team like a small market team.

Been my contention for years. Always hear about going out to get top level talent, but end up with meets requirements. Sure, maybe 1 or 2 Marquee players to spin the turnstyles to buy churros and dogs, but no big dogs that bring home silverware.

BK59

[palehozenychicty]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

It's just one of those things. If there is a reason its we just we have not had the players. How many Cy Young pitchers have we had? Any Triple Crown threats? Any Hall of Famers? Maybe PK. ( Thomas is going to the HOF but was not around for most of the years in question) How many 5 tools players in that time, Rios and who else?
If we had the same players all the time that Lip has mentioned then I say we have a bunch of losers, thats not the case, just a bunch of players that were decent but not just good enough.
It comes down to JR running a big market team like a small market team.

That's what happens when you don't really commit to a plan. It's hard to win a title when the management makes middling decisions.

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

Part III By the Numbers...(I apologize that they don't completely line up properly)

Red means the win percentage was worse than the first set of numbers.

Green means the win percentage was better than the first set of numbers.

2003:
Games 1-81: 39-42 .481
Games 82-162: 47-34 .580

Before All Star Break: 45-49 .478
After All Star Break: 41-27 .602

2004:
Games 1-81: 43-38 .530
Games 82-162: 40-41 .493

Before All Star Break: 46-38 .547
After All Star Break: 37-41 .474

2005:
Games 1-81: 55-26 .679
Games 82-162: 44-37 .543

Before All Star Break: 57-29 .662
After All Star Break: 42-34 .552

2006:
Games 1-81: 53-28 .654
Games 82-162: 37-44 .456

Before All Star Break: 57-31 .647
After All Star Break: 33-41 .445

2007:
Games 1-81: 36-45 .444
Games 82-162: 36-45 .444

Before All Star Break: 39-47 .453
After All Star Break: 33-43 .434

2008:
Games 1-81: 45-36 .555
Games 82-163: 44-38 .536

Before All Star Break: 54-41 .568
After All Star Break: 35-33 .514

2009:
Games 1-81: 42-39 .518
Games 82-162: 37-44 .456

Before All Star Break: 45-43 .511
After All Star Break: 34-40 .459

2010:
Games 1-81: 43-38 .530
Games 82-162: 45-36 .555

Before All Star Break: 49-38 .563
After All Star Break: 39-36 .520

2011:
Games 1-81: 39-42 .481
Games 82-162: 40-41 .493

Before All Star Break: 44-48 .478
After All Star Break: 35-35 .500

2012:
Games 1-81: 44-37 .543
Games 82-162: 41-40 .506

Before All Star Break: 47-38 .552
After All Star Break: 38-39 .493

That's all I've got, feel free to discuss, comment...whatever you wish

Lip

Bravo. You couldn't be more right . And you are right a lot of people never even mention this . To me it is huge . All we hear is this " but they were in first all year garbage" and to that I say "so what", it seems like they are near or in first every year and the same choke job happens continuously . It has an underrated effect on attendance , because a lot of fans have seen this movie before and assume they are going to blow it anyway. Also, the Sox are always mediocre, around 83 wins on average, so despite the hailing of Kenny Williams as a genius by many, they don't inspire many hopes of contending for the AL pennant.

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by kittle42

This is a great example of ignoring statistics in favor of only relying on data that support a false supposition.

What false supposition? The Sox choke a lot at the end of the season. That's a fact. You must be watching the season in reverse or something. I would bet they have been in first or near it in most years since 08 and still have not once made the playoffs. The Sox need you badly in the PR department , i suggest you send your posts with your resume.

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by DSpivack

It's a fluke of statistics, nothing more.

No, it is fact. The Sox suck when it counts. Anyone with 2 eyes can see that, don't even need statistics.

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by sachin

Not trying to bust on you, but you just wrote 3 major pages on how the White Sox are lousy in the 2nd half, complete with delineated statistics over nearly 10 years.

Ok, so what? They seem to have bad luck or run out of gas. So do a lot of teams. Big whoop... Not exactly earthshaking news or something to really get all outraged over.

Good teams do not wilt in the pennant race. Yes it is something to get mad about because I am personally sick of being teased every year. The stats say trend , not bad luck.

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by shingo10

The bottom line is that the Sox do not finish seasons. They just don't and you can say that all the stats don't mean anything but obviously they do...because seemingly every year at this time we are having a similar discussion.

So now what is the solution? They have GOT to try to do something to correct this. If they are breaking down and becoming tired then there should be a way to remedy this...I know many have said a better bench would help but in 2006 they had a pretty good bench and it still made no difference. More rest for pitchers?

Part of the problem of the last few years (excluding this year) were the awful starts they would have to the season. Then they'd have to go on an exhausting run just to get to .500 and fade away.

Maybe its simply a mindset akin to the Metrodome or Johan Santana or the Royals...

It's amazing how accepting of mediocrity some of these people are.

[mahagga73]

Originally Posted by soxfan21

Very good research Lip. As you stated, if we made the playoffs 6 or 7 times in the last 13 years I don't think that there would be attendance issues, and it would be nice to have a team that would have been a division contender every year. Unfortunately it wasn't meant to be, and I am afraid that if this trend keeps up and we don't make the playoffs in the next year or two we can see attendance dip to the way it was in the early 2000's.

And Kittle42 and Spivak will still say the statistics and numbers are a fluke and mean nothing,lol.They will need the stats for all teams to determine what is obvious to most, the Sox don't get it done when it counts, with the exception of one magical year.

[TheVulture]

If the Sox had just won every game they ever played, they would have over one hundred World Series titles. What went wrong? What. went. wrong.

[TheVulture]

Originally Posted by mahagga73

Good teams do not wilt in the pennant race. Yes it is something to get mad about because I am personally sick of being teased every year. The stats say trend , not bad luck.

I'll tell you what happened this year. The Sox two best pitchers never pitched more than 80 innings in a season before, while the two best hitters are getting old, banged up and all four of them ran out of gas for the last four to six weeks of the season.

[Lip Man 1]

Vulture:

The Sox apparently "ran out of gas" in 2003, 2006, 2010 and now 2012. The individual circumstances may be different from season to season but the end result is the same. Perhaps the Sox would do well to try to find some common threads in those four seasons and then try to repair them or eliminate them.

I still say JB has it pretty much spot-on, the rosters are top heavy, there is no depth, guys get hurt, go into slumps and the drop off to replacement players is very dramatic.

Compare that for example to what the Yankees pulled off tonight with their bench.

Fans were pleading with Kenny to upgrade the bench back in August saying it was going to haunt the club. It did. Better guys were available...the million dollar question is why Kenny did nothing and up to that point he had a hell of a season getting the help needed.

Lip

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

Vulture:

The Sox apparently "ran out of gas" in 2003, 2006, 2010 and now 2012. The individual circumstances may be different from season to season but the end result is the same. Perhaps the Sox would do well to try to find some common threads in those four seasons and then try to repair them or eliminate them.

I still say JB has it pretty much spot-on, the rosters are top heavy, there is no depth, guys get hurt, go into slumps and the drop off to replacement players is very dramatic.

Compare that for example to what the Yankees pulled off tonight with their bench.

Fans were pleading with Kenny to upgrade the bench back in August saying it was going to haunt the club. It did. Better guys were available...the million dollar question is why Kenny did nothing and up to that point he had a hell of a season getting the help needed.

Lip

Ibanez was pretty much their starting LF for the majority of the season, until they traded for Ichiro. That's the only big difference there. Otherwise, their bench partially relied on castoffs from the White Sox in Jayson Nix, Dewayne Wise, Chris Stewart, and Andruw Jones.