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  #106  
Old 12-13-2012, 03:29 PM
johnnyg83 johnnyg83 is offline
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What?
.
Point made on Beckham. Giovatelli has been a disappointment.

As far as offense , they had the third most hits in the AL and close to the Sox in XBHs.

Francouer and Hosmer went from 20 Hrs/87 RBIs and 19 hrs/78 rbis in 2011 to 16/49 and 14/60 respectively. That's 50+ runs right there. They also hit into a lot of DPs.

And let's not forget defense: Cain, Gordon, Escobar, Hosmer, Perez could all win gold gloves by the time they're done. Who on the Sox can we say that about? Beckham?
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  #107  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:39 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Point made on Beckham. Giovatelli has been a disappointment.

As far as offense , they had the third most hits in the AL and close to the Sox in XBHs.

Francouer and Hosmer went from 20 Hrs/87 RBIs and 19 hrs/78 rbis in 2011 to 16/49 and 14/60 respectively. That's 50+ runs right there. They also hit into a lot of DPs.

And let's not forget defense: Cain, Gordon, Escobar, Hosmer, Perez could all win gold gloves by the time they're done. Who on the Sox can we say that about? Beckham?
You are really overrating these people. The Royals had the second most errors in the league last year (113), just one back of Tampa Bay (114). They were last in the league in defensive efficiency and last in the league in fielding percentage.

They lost 90 games for a reason. They really were not good in any area, and while I like the addition of Shields, I think their ceiling is mediocrity for 2013. Not that it's a bad thing. Mediocrity would be a big step forward for the Royals.

The Sox were second in fielding percentage, fifth in defensive efficiency and committed the fewest errors in the league. By both statistics and the eye test, they were a far superior defensive club than the Royals.
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  #108  
Old 12-13-2012, 09:07 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Of course she's list is better for your argument; whenever you get to artificially select a smaller amount of names it almost always works out in your own favor. I've just showed you 5 years of the absolute best prospects in baseball. 20 names. 7 of them are busts. That's a 35% failure rate, AGAIN, of the very best prospects in baseball.
Hank Blalock made two all star teams. He is not a bust at all.

That's 5 busts out of 20.

And why did you stop at 2005 by the way?

Last edited by CoopaLoop; 12-13-2012 at 09:14 PM.
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  #109  
Old 12-13-2012, 09:59 PM
johnnyg83 johnnyg83 is offline
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You are really overrating these people. The Royals had the second most errors in the league last year (113), just one back of Tampa Bay (114). They were last in the league in defensive efficiency and last in the league in fielding percentage.

They lost 90 games for a reason. They really were not good in any area, and while I like the addition of Shields, I think their ceiling is mediocrity for 2013. Not that it's a bad thing. Mediocrity would be a big step forward for the Royals.

The Sox were second in fielding percentage, fifth in defensive efficiency and committed the fewest errors in the league. By both statistics and the eye test, they were a far superior defensive club than the Royals.
I've caught royals fever!
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  #110  
Old 12-14-2012, 12:03 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Hank Blalock made two all star teams. He is not a bust at all.

That's 5 busts out of 20.

And why did you stop at 2005 by the way?
Please, Blalock's career WAR is 11.6, less than Joe ****ing Crede, basically all of which was accrued in the 1st 2 seasons of his 9-year career. The guy was basically useless once he hit the ripe old age of 24.

Why not stop at 2005? I just needed a random 5-year sample which I think pretty definitely proved my point.
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  #111  
Old 12-14-2012, 10:28 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Why not stop at 2005? I just needed a random 5-year sample which I think pretty definitely proved my point.
Or you picked a good window to make an argument.

(busts bolded)

1996
1. Andruw Jones, of, Braves
2. Paul Wilson, rhp, Mets injury
3. Ruben Rivera, of, Yankees
4. Darin Erstad, of, Angels
5. Alan Benes, rhp, Cardinals

1997
1. Andruw Jones, of, Braves
2. Vladimir Guerrero, of, Expos
3. Kerry Wood, rhp, Cubs
4. Matt White, rhp, Devil Rays
5. Travis Lee, 1b, Diamondbacks


1998
1. Ben Grieve, of, Athletics
2. Paul Konerko, 1b/3b, Dodgers
3. Adrian Beltre, 3b, Dodgers
4. Kerry Wood, rhp, Cubs
5. Aramis Ramirez, 3b, Pirates

1999
1. J.D. Drew, of, Cardinals
2. Rick Ankiel, lhp, Cardinals
3. Eric Chavez, 3b, Athletics
4. Bruce Chen, lhp, Braves
5. Brad Penny, rhp, Diamondbacks

2000
1. Rick Ankiel, lhp, Cardinals
2. Pat Burrell, 1b/of, Phillies
3. Corey Patterson, of, Cubs
4. Vernon Wells, of, Blue Jays
5. Nick Johnson, 1b, Yankees

2006
1. Delmon Young, of, Devil Rays
2. Justin Upton, ss, Diamondbacks
3. Brandon Wood, ss, Angels
4. Jeremy Hermida, of, Marlins

5. Stephen Drew, ss, Diamondbacks

2007
1. Daisuke Matsuzaka, rhp, Red Sox
2. Alex Gordon, 3b, Royals
3. Delmon Young, of, Devil
4. Philip Hughes, rhp, Yankees
5. Homer Bailey, rhp, Reds

2008
1. Jay Bruce of, Reds
2. Evan Longoria 3b, Rays
3. Joba Chamberlain rhp, Yankees
4. Clay Buchholz rhp, Red Sox
5. Colby Rasmus of, Cardinals

2009
1. Matt Wieters, c, Orioles
2. David Price, lhp, Rays
3. Colby Rasmus, of, Cardinals
4. Tommy Hanson, rhp, Braves
5. Jason Heyward, of, Braves

2010
1. Jason Heyward, of, Braves
2. Stephen Strasburg, rhp, Nationals
3. Mike Stanton, of, Marlins
4. Jesus Montero, c, Yankees potential bust
5. Brian Matusz, lhp, Orioles

I will take my chances with guys rated that high when the return doesn't put my squad over the top.
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  #112  
Old 12-14-2012, 11:02 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is online now
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Or you picked a good window to make an argument.


I will take my chances with guys rated that high when the return doesn't put my squad over the top.
Kerry Wood, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Ben Grieve, Rick Ankiel, Nick Johnson, Stephen Drew, Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain don't count as busts to you?
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  #113  
Old 12-17-2012, 09:49 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Kerry Wood, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Ben Grieve, Rick Ankiel, Nick Johnson, Stephen Drew, Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain don't count as busts to you?
Kerry Wood nearly brought the Cubs to a world series. Sure his career didn't reach it's full potential, but he had a good run while healthy. I wouldn't label him a bust.

Dice K doesn't really fit in with the normal prospects. That was a free agent signing really.

Grieve I suppose could be, but he a decent 5 year run and won the rookie of the year.

I thought Ankiel's 2007-2009 was better than it actually is, I will concede that.

Hughes isn't a bust, he is still a part of the rotation and Nick Johnson didn't live up to the hype, but every prospect that doesn't become a star isn't a bust.

Stephen Drew's 2006-2011 is hardly bust worthy. He had a WAR above 1.5 5/6 seasons.
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