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  #16  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:47 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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Look at a situation like Tampa Bay... I mean how many years in a row did they have a very decent draft pick and eventually all that talent was able to come up and contribute. Not saying the Sox should suck for 10 years just to build a decent club but there is no quick way to do this. It doesn't help when you just spin your wheels however. There seemed like there was no real agenda this offseason so...we'll see I guess.
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  #17  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:49 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
More fannies in the ballpark.
More investment in the farm system.
New ownership.
That may mean moving to another city. How about the Havana White Sox
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  #18  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:29 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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People have already come up with a number of good points but I will reiterate what others have already said and that is there needs to be a complete overhaul of organizational philosophy. Usually that means bringing in a new front office but due to Jerry's sense of loyalty (especially to Kenny), I just can't imagine that that will ever happen. I think new ownership is needed, but I hope Hahn can be the change that is needed for the White Sox front office but I am skeptical if his tenure will be much different from Kenny's or if Kenny is completely out of the picture in terms of personnel decisions.
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  #19  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:34 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Better global pro and amateur scouting, better drafting (including spending for talent), and better minor league coaching and player development, will result in a more productive pipeline of talent flowing to the major league club. With better talent flowing in when it is young and cheap, the Sox then won't have to pay high prices (in dollars and/or prospects) for mediocre veterans to fill holes, and therefore will have the financial resources to keep the best of their homegrown talent, and sign top-tier free agents when appropriate.
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  #20  
Old 02-17-2013, 04:56 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Gosox 41:

Well the ownership question is a moot point because sooner or later JR is going to be out of the picture and based on the latest information that he himself has made public in print and on TV, no one in his family wants to take over when he is gone.

It's going to come regardless and we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Daver's point is also very, very valid. Money. Money solves a ton of problems, can buy your way out of a lot of situations.

I've often wondered how things might have changed in the history of the franchise if they ever had someone who could have basically unlimited funds with a desire to win at all costs.

Lip
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  #21  
Old 02-17-2013, 05:12 PM
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Getting rid of Mullet Night.
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  #22  
Old 02-17-2013, 05:28 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Gosox 41:

Well the ownership question is a moot point because sooner or later JR is going to be out of the picture and based on the latest information that he himself has made public in print and on TV, no one in his family wants to take over when he is gone.

It's going to come regardless and we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Daver's point is also very, very valid. Money. Money solves a ton of problems, can buy your way out of a lot of situations.

I've often wondered how things might have changed in the history of the franchise if they ever had someone who could have basically unlimited funds with a desire to win at all costs.

Lip
What gives JR the right to name his successor? Isn't his ownership percentage about 20%? Can't the other partners choose a new managing partner at any time? They're not the North Korea White Sox, are they?
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  #23  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:00 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Slavko:

Actually JR's ownership percentage has reportedly been listed at 5% or so but that is still enough for him to be in day to day control as per agreement with the other owners for putting together the original deal to buy the club from Bill Veeck.

Because he is in day to day control (which is also written into his contract by the way which states he can do as he wishes without having to consult the other minority owners on baseball matters) he has the right to sell to whom he chooses to first before any other individual or company can get involved.

Lip
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  #24  
Old 02-17-2013, 07:30 PM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
I've often wondered how things might have changed in the history of the franchise if they ever had someone who could have basically unlimited funds with a desire to win at all costs.
You could literally say this about any club in literally any team sport.
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  #25  
Old 02-17-2013, 08:18 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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This is easy. Commitment to win. In all areas. Not commitment to break even, not pay for amateur talent, not pay for a good farm system, not pay for the best players.

What sucks is that we were there in 2006, and even though we didn't make the playoffs, ownership should have kept the post 2005 commitment to get back to the Series like Arte Moreno did in Anaheim.

2007 was an epic fail for a lack of "50 cents" and the franchise went backward rather than forward.

2006 proved that the fans will fill the park for a winner, and Jerry quit on those fans.
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  #26  
Old 02-17-2013, 10:38 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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2006 proved that the fans will fill the park for a winner, and Jerry quit on those fans.
So then what does 2012 prove?

The amount of finger pointing and whining in this thread is really, really pathetic. You know what it takes to be a consistent playoff team? Just get good players.
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  #27  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:10 PM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
People have already come up with a number of good points but I will reiterate what others have already said and that is there needs to be a complete overhaul of organizational philosophy. Usually that means bringing in a new front office but due to Jerry's sense of loyalty (especially to Kenny), I just can't imagine that that will ever happen. I think new ownership is needed, but I hope Hahn can be the change that is needed for the White Sox front office but I am skeptical if his tenure will be much different from Kenny's or if Kenny is completely out of the picture in terms of personnel decisions.
I have to disagree. Imagine you're Rick Hahn. Teams have been after you the last 3-4 yrs to be the GM, heck he even turned other teams down. But why? he'd had multiple oppprtunities to have his dream job of running an organization. Why turn that chance down (even with a team like the Pirates) to be a puppet for Kenny Williams? There's no reason to if he takes pride in what he does. I'm sure he wants to create his own legacy and if he is being honest with himself, he wouldn't take a job in title only if he couldn't do what he wants.

Based on what I readn and what little I know about Rick and Kenny, I think Rick will be a lot more patient and is a lot more conservative and will take a big picture POV of things. Kenny grew up on that football mentality of win now with the future be damned. Rick's background isn't like that.



Bob
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  #28  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:15 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosox41 View Post
I have to disagree. Imagine you're Rick Hahn. Teams have been after you the last 3-4 yrs to be the GM, heck he even turned other teams down. But why? he'd had multiple oppprtunities to have his dream job of running an organization. Why turn that chance down (even with a team like the Pirates) to be a puppet for Kenny Williams? There's no reason to if he takes pride in what he does. I'm sure he wants to create his own legacy and if he is being honest with himself, he wouldn't take a job in title only if he couldn't do what he wants.

Based on what I readn and what little I know about Rick and Kenny, I think Rick will be a lot more patient and is a lot more conservative and will take a big picture POV of things. Kenny grew up on that football mentality of win now with the future be damned. Rick's background isn't like that.



Bob
I hope you're right and I will say right now that I have absolutely no evidence to suggest that Rick would be Kenny's puppet or anything like that and to be honest the moves of this off season would suggest that Hahn isn't Kenny's puppet. It just seems to me that in previous situations like this the GM emeritus still holds most of the power, if you want to make a deal with the Cubs for example, you call Theo. Not Jed Hoyer.
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  #29  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:17 PM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Slavko:

Actually JR's ownership percentage has reportedly been listed at 5% or so but that is still enough for him to be in day to day control as per agreement with the other owners for putting together the original deal to buy the club from Bill Veeck.

Because he is in day to day control (which is also written into his contract by the way which states he can do as he wishes without having to consult the other minority owners on baseball matters) he has the right to sell to whom he chooses to first before any other individual or company can get involved.

Lip
The team is set up as a Limited Partnership. This isn't ground breaking in the business world. There is a board of directors who have very little input on the day to day things.

As for selling the team, I believe he can sell to whom he wants but he is obligated legally to get the best deal possible for his partners. He can't go sell the team to his son for $1 or anything like ridculous like that.


Bob
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  #30  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:27 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosox41 View Post
The team is set up as a Limited Partnership. This isn't ground breaking in the business world. There is a board of directors who have very little input on the day to day things.

As for selling the team, I believe he can sell to whom he wants but he is obligated legally to get the best deal possible for his partners. He can't go sell the team to his son for $1 or anything like ridculous like that.
I don't believe JR will sell his stake in the Sox as long as he lives, but, and pardon my ignorance here, what would be the situation that unfolds when he passes away? Obviously I don't know the Reinsdorfs but everything I have ever read suggests the family is interested in keeping their interest with the Bulls but not the Sox. Would they only be able to sell whatever their share of ownership and just have the board appoint a new acting chairman but basically have the same operational leadership or could they sell the franchise to an entirely new ownership group that may radically alter the way the Sox are run?
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