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  #1  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:02 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Default What's it going to take to make Sox a consistent playoff team?

This is a question I have often thought of and really have no answer for. It's not like they sit on their hands and don't make a move when they are in contention every year, but the results are always the same, somewhere a little above or below .500 most years recently. Even in 05, they couldn't break out and make the playoffs in 06. I've heard theories about lack of prospects killing team depth late in the season when it is needed and all, but I really have no answer. The main goal of any baseball team should be to make the playoffs on a consistent basis. If you do that, you will win the series eventually in most cases. The Giants, not all that impressive on paper compared to a lot of teams, now have 2 titles in 3 years. The Cardinals are always in the playoffs and have won 2 titles, etc. Interested in what others think, since a lot of you ,I know, are probably smarter about this than I am. I want to see another series before I die.
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  #2  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:19 PM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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Overhauling of the draft process (perhaps already taking place), instituting actual organizational philosophies, producing and acquiring players who can get on base above a .300 clip...
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  #3  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:24 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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More fannies in the ballpark.
More investment in the farm system.
New ownership.
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  #4  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:26 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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I think they were set up after the 2005 season to have a long run of success and it just came down to players not performing. The 2006 team still won 90 games but unfortunately the central was the toughest division in baseball that year. Still had the pitching held up there easily could have been a repeat.

Then in 2007 injuries and a mentally frazzled Contreras did us in (as well as the power arms) and the next couple years were kind of overhauls thrown together with no real longevity.

I think we are off to a good start with this coaching staff who seems to be hammering the fundamentals. Solid pitching and defense will always put you in a good position to win. Now for the hitting...
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  #5  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:30 PM
SoxSpeed22 SoxSpeed22 is offline
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I will go with consistency in talent. Year after year, the Sox have made a lot of changes, and the only talented guys that they could bring in (besides Buehrle and Konerko) were other teams castoffs/baggage. Examples include Floyd, Edwin Jackson, Rios, Dunn, Peavy etc. Some of these have worked out, but not very consistently. Ramirez was a nice signing, bringing in De Aza gave the team a nice shot in the arm when he was healthy. The trade to bring in Danks was nice, but there were not enough of those.
The Tigers are also guilty of this to an extent, but they were able to get better talents in Cabrera, Fielder, Young and Fister (Verlander was drafted). They were also able to bring in a few young guys to fill positions either from within or that trade that got Jackson there.
The Giants were also guilty of having a lot of bad signings, but they were able to make up for it with strong starting pitching and Buster Posey.
The point is, the Sox need to bring in top-tier talent in important spots. People that other teams would love to build around. They have been doing better with young guys. They had 9 rookies on the roster, the pitchers were solid, until rookie troubles happened, but they give me hope. The coaching needs to be consistent across each minor league level, where they hear the same things, instead of too many things at once. Organizational philosophy was mentioned, and I agree. The young hitters is something they must improve upon. I hope we got that guy in Hawkins, but we will have to see. I've said plenty of things about the farm system in previous posts, but getting solid contributors is also needed.
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  #6  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:42 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxSpeed22 View Post
I will go with consistency in talent. Year after year, the Sox have made a lot of changes, and the only talented guys that they could bring in (besides Buehrle and Konerko) were other teams castoffs/baggage. Examples include Floyd, Edwin Jackson, Rios, Dunn, Peavy etc. Some of these have worked out, but not very consistently. Ramirez was a nice signing, bringing in De Aza gave the team a nice shot in the arm when he was healthy. The trade to bring in Danks was nice, but there were not enough of those.
The Tigers are also guilty of this to an extent, but they were able to get better talents in Cabrera, Fielder, Young and Fister (Verlander was drafted). They were also able to bring in a few young guys to fill positions either from within or that trade that got Jackson there.
The Giants were also guilty of having a lot of bad signings, but they were able to make up for it with strong starting pitching and Buster Posey.
The point is, the Sox need to bring in top-tier talent in important spots. People that other teams would love to build around. They have been doing better with young guys. They had 9 rookies on the roster, the pitchers were solid, until rookie troubles happened, but they give me hope. The coaching needs to be consistent across each minor league level, where they hear the same things, instead of too many things at once. Organizational philosophy was mentioned, and I agree. The young hitters is something they must improve upon. I hope we got that guy in Hawkins, but we will have to see. I've said plenty of things about the farm system in previous posts, but getting solid contributors is also needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SephClone89 View Post
Overhauling of the draft process (perhaps already taking place), instituting actual organizational philosophies, producing and acquiring players who can get on base above a .300 clip...
I agree with both of these posts. A core group of young talent is the best way to build a team, even if you're the Yankees (and they're having more problems as Jeter, Rivera, et al age). That's how the Sox were a continued success leading up to the strike. That team, however, was built on high draft picks after a few years of losing in the late 80s. I don't think they have luxury of just blowing up the team for a few years and getting talent that way (nor do I think that method works with any regularity), it will require more international investment and better scouting, drafting, and developing young talented players. Hopefully the new CBA will make that more of a reality for the White Sox.
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  #7  
Old 02-17-2013, 12:43 PM
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  #8  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:07 PM
Noneck Noneck is online now
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A big tv contract. And spending like a drunken sailor.
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  #9  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:32 PM
johnnyg83 johnnyg83 is offline
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A big tv contract. And spending like a drunken sailor.
Sometimes I wish our owner was closer to death without a WS win.
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  #10  
Old 02-17-2013, 01:39 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Great question...one there isn't an easy answer for. I'd say it's a combination of things:

In no particular order:

1. A better farm system. Getting better prospects regardless of who the agent is, hiring the best scouts and minor league coaches to develop the prospects to reach their potential.

2. Change in organizational attitude. It's not enough anymore to "contend" in a garbage division. Let's talk about contending for the pennant on a regular basis. That requires acquiring talent by any and all means. Getting it in depth to protect against injuries and slumps.

3. Aggressively looking to 'take back' Chicago (as it was in the 1950's). No more of this, "we don't compete with the Cubs nonsense." Of course you do, you are in competition for the casual fans money, not the die hard's. That money goes a long way to getting done the first two points in this post.

4. A new TV contract. It comes open in 2016, now is the time to position the franchise to get the best possible deal.

5. Time for new ownership. This is not a slam at JR, after 20 years of major, serious, poor decisions that cost the franchise dearly on and off the field he has changed many (not all) of his ways...but it's simply the fact that after 31 years the organization has become stale and rigid in it's mindset. Time for new blood, new faces, new ideas.

Lip
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  #11  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:03 PM
Bucky F. Dent Bucky F. Dent is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
............. better scouting, drafting, and developing young talented players...............
That is the essential element right there.
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:31 PM
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Money.
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  #13  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:34 PM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
This is a question I have often thought of and really have no answer for. It's not like they sit on their hands and don't make a move when they are in contention every year, but the results are always the same, somewhere a little above or below .500 most years recently. Even in 05, they couldn't break out and make the playoffs in 06. I've heard theories about lack of prospects killing team depth late in the season when it is needed and all, but I really have no answer. The main goal of any baseball team should be to make the playoffs on a consistent basis. If you do that, you will win the series eventually in most cases. The Giants, not all that impressive on paper compared to a lot of teams, now have 2 titles in 3 years. The Cardinals are always in the playoffs and have won 2 titles, etc. Interested in what others think, since a lot of you ,I know, are probably smarter about this than I am. I want to see another series before I die.
Build a strong base of talent through the farm system. In terms of making trades, I think Hahn is tkaing the right approach. Stop trading prospects right now unless you are really close. It's one of the ingredients of build a strong farm system (drafting better and player developement are also part of the equation and something that needs to be done more.)

The only trades he should make now are to move vets for prospects...as long as he gets what he considers fair value or better. This team can contend this year, but long term they need a better farm system so they're no longer throwing money away at the Manny Ramirez's of the world when you are close and hoping an overpaid, over the hill vet can help.

The next step is to get people to the games. Something the Sox are working on by reducing prices. More attendence=more money=more opportinity to make your team better.


Bob
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  #14  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:39 PM
MtGrnwdSoxFan MtGrnwdSoxFan is offline
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  #15  
Old 02-17-2013, 02:41 PM
gosox41 gosox41 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Great question...one there isn't an easy answer for. I'd say it's a combination of things:


5. Time for new ownership. This is not a slam at JR, after 20 years of major, serious, poor decisions that cost the franchise dearly on and off the field he has changed many (not all) of his ways...but it's simply the fact that after 31 years the organization has become stale and rigid in it's mindset. Time for new blood, new faces, new ideas.

Lip
I don't mind the mind set or the things have been done. I was more tired of KW's lack of regard the farm system. Loved being aggressive. But aggressive with stupid is not so good.

I like the fact that JR is more hands off when compared to other owners but who will also spend allocate funds to win when they are close. It's more the GM's fault for not allocating the assets correctly than anything.

Quick points:

1. The last couple of years, the team's payroll has ranked higher then where the attendence has ranked. That shows some commitment. He does spend wat he has.

2. While money helps (this is a circular discussion that will never end) it's not the be all end all of winning. It helps to hide mistakes but look at the playoffs the last couple of years and where some of the more recent WS champs have ranked.

3. Whose to say a new owner will be any better. Everyone assumes that a new owner will spend. What if a new owner wants to come in and live off revenue sharing, a decent TV deal, and a low payroll.

Or take the case of Loria in FL. There is a reason he's not selling the team.


Bob
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