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  #61  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:20 AM
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asindc asindc is online now
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Ventura told Gonzo after tonight's win that he's thinking about an 8:30AM practice session again for the team before Wednesday's afternoon game.

Good. Either they'll figure it out or Robin should just continue to crack the whip on these 'baseball stupid' players.

Lip
Good. Let's hope he makes these sessions a regular part of their routine. Not necessarily before every game, but maybe once or twice a week until they look like they are getting it.
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  #62  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:06 AM
nsolo nsolo is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
I am not impressed with this. Real changes should have come two years ago starting with an experienced manager.
Although others don't, I agree with this. Don't feel persecuted due to a personal opinion. I remember a few years ago seeing the phrase "in Kenny we trust" used on this board. That ideology is what we are paying for now.
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  #63  
Old 05-16-2013, 10:15 AM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by DeadMoney View Post
And...? Does anyone seriously think a different manager would've been able to correct this mess?

Most of the pitching aside, the MLB roster is atrocious (and don't even get me started on our prospects). Heck, even with the pitching, I tend to think that there's only a handful of guys on this roster that other teams would be interested in having at the price we're paying.

As for Robin making these comments, he probably deserves some criticism for this. What changes can he make? With the exception of sending Dunn off with a one-way ticket to anywhere-but-here, what can he do?

Oh, and as for the prospects I mentioned let's look at the offensive guys from our Top 10 - according to BP - and Jared Mitchell as a fun toss-in...
1.OF Courtney Hawkins (A+) .177/.247/.456 45 Ks
2.OF Trayce Thompson (AA) .227/.352/.386 35 Ks
3.IF Carlos Sanchez (AAA) .215/.297/.262 21 Ks
7.CF Keenyn Walker (AA) .195/.323/.256 45 Ks
10. 1B Keon Barnum (Rk) .279/.347/.512 13 Ks
OF Jared Mitchell (AAA/AA) .149/.318/.224 31 Ks
Well, aren't you a ray of sunshine!

It's evident with Hawkins, Thompson, Walker, Barnum, and Mitchell that the Sox drafting philosophy shifted to high-ceiling, raw, prospects from sign-able, low ceiling pitchers. It's the Sox dumb luck that none of them have panned out (yet), but it's too early to tell with some of them. Barnum was doing pretty well until he was injured. I'm not sure what happened with Hawkins. It looks like he took a big step back from last year.

What I don't get is how the Sox end up with the same type of position player - whether drafting from the collegiate ranks, high school, or internationally. They seem to have an uncanny ability to find players that don't hit for average, have low OBP, and strike out too much. It's incredible to me that KW couldn't have 'lucked' into even a slightly above average hitter never mind a "star."

Is this a by-product of where we have been drafting for the last 5-6 years (towards the bottom third)? Have we been focused too much on pitching in the later rounds at the expense of position players? Or is our player development really that awful?

Since 2008, here are the Sox first few picks:

'08 - Beckham, Morel
'09 - Mitchell, Phegley, Trayce Thompson
'10 - Sale, Petricka, Reed
'11 - Walker, K. Johnson, Soptic
'12 - Hawkins, Barnum

BTW - we took Mitchell two picks ahead of Mike Trout.

I'm not blaming Ventura even though I hated the hire. I think he's done a decent job. I'm not even blaming the players. They're just not very good. 99% of this is on Kenny Williams, our minor league instructors, and our scouts.

I think Hahn has a tougher job than even Theo.
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  #64  
Old 05-17-2013, 01:37 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
...
Is this a by-product of where we have been drafting for the last 5-6 years (towards the bottom third)? Have we been focused too much on pitching in the later rounds at the expense of position players? Or is our player development really that awful?

Since 2008, here are the Sox first few picks:

'08 - Beckham, Morel
'09 - Mitchell, Phegley, Trayce Thompson
'10 - Sale, Petricka, Reed
'11 - Walker, K. Johnson, Soptic
'12 - Hawkins, Barnum

BTW - we took Mitchell two picks ahead of Mike Trout.

I'm not blaming Ventura even though I hated the hire. I think he's done a decent job. I'm not even blaming the players. They're just not very good. 99% of this is on Kenny Williams, our minor league instructors, and our scouts.

I think Hahn has a tougher job than even Theo.
Drafts seem so much easier in hindsight. Thirteen players picked ahead of Mike Trout haven't made it to the majors yet, and a few might not make it. At least a couple are no longer with the organization that drafted them. One was still pitching in Modesto (Class A) last year and couldn't get hitters out consistently. I don't recall fans complaining that the Sox didn't take Trout on draft day, but maybe that's an instance of bad memory.

The year the White Sox drafted Frank Thomas, the Cardinals and Phillies selected outfielders who never made it to the majors with picks before the White Sox. The Cubs that year picked after the Sox with the eighth pick, taking an outfielder who never made it to the majors. If the Cubs had finished behind the Cardinals in 1988 (the Cubs won 77, the Cardinals 76), Frank Thomas may have starred with the Cubs and . Or maybe not. Maybe the Cubs were so high on Earl Cunningham that they would have taken him if Frank Thomas was still available.

It isn't like the White Sox are the only team getting the draft wrong. Most teams are getting the draft wrong most of the time, with a few exceptions here and there.
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