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  #31  
Old 05-29-2013, 11:49 AM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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[QUOTE=Lip Man 1;3055670

Also just wondering if anyone knows the answer to this. Don't even know if MLB keeps track of such things but Dunn, De Aza and Flowers are all on pace to strike out at least 150 times each this season.

Has a team ever had three 'starters' do that in a single season?


Lip[/QUOTE]

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Justin Upton-152
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Chris Young-145
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  #32  
Old 05-29-2013, 11:51 AM
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Also, for the most part, Cincinnati, and, most definitely, Atlanta, just off the top of my head.
Not really, those are just teams whose questionable bullpen arms are currently suceeding. Of course, they both have lights out closers and that helps a lot, but it would be disingenious to say that all of their bullpen arms have long, successful track records in the Majors. They're guys who are pressed into bullpen duty and sometimes they succeed, sometimes they don't. But it doesn't take more than 5 minutes on B-R to find some of these guys' history don't inspire much confidence in the long-run.
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  #33  
Old 05-29-2013, 11:57 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Maybe we could give Rick Hahn a year or so in the job to find a few more serviceable players like Gillaspie before declaring the franchise a total disaster.
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Then they'll have to shell out money on actual good FAs for the offense, as there's nothing in the minors. Do you have faith in them to do that? Mine is low-but-hopeful.
Seems like I've been hearing for years that the Sox system has nothing. Then the Sox bring up guys like Reed, Axelrod, Jones, Quintana.
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  #34  
Old 05-29-2013, 11:59 AM
soxfanatlanta soxfanatlanta is offline
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2010 Diamondbacks
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Adam La Roche-172
Justin Upton-152
Kelly Johnson-148
Chris Young-145
Uggla, and the Upton brothers are all on pace for 180+

It's not unheard of, but it sucks all the same.
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  #35  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:02 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Doctor:

Will all respect I don't think Axelrod is anything speacial and unfortunately we've seen what's happened to Jones from last year to this one.

I think Kittle's general point is valid. The Sox especially compared to other other teams seems to have very, very few guys who can come up out of the system and have a good solid major league career.

Also it's worth nothing that the players you mention are all pitchers, the Sox seem to do a nice job developing them...position players? hitters??

That's another story isn't it?

Lip
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  #36  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:09 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Doctor:

Will all respect I don't think Axelrod is anything speacial and unfortunately we've seen what's happened to Jones from last year to this one.

I think Kittle's general point is valid. The Sox especially compared to other other teams seems to have very, very few guys who can come up out of the system and have a good solid major league career.

Also it's worth nothing that the players you mention are all pitchers, the Sox seem to do a nice job developing them...position players? hitters??

That's another story isn't it?

Lip
Of course you think it's valid. You've headed the Doom and Gloom Committee for a decade.

Axelrod doesn't have to be "special." He has to continue to give us quality starts at the 5th spot. If he doesn't, Johnson isn't that far off. Or, Santiago takes his spot.

Also, this same team, minus AJ, scored more runs than last year's Tigers, correct? We aren't good, but certainly better than we've played. We won't out-slug anyone, but still have a pitcher's chance at making some noise.
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  #37  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:11 PM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Doctor:

Will all respect I don't think Axelrod is anything speacial and unfortunately we've seen what's happened to Jones from last year to this one.

I think Kittle's general point is valid. The Sox especially compared to other other teams seems to have very, very few guys who can come up out of the system and have a good solid major league career.

Also it's worth nothing that the players you mention are all pitchers, the Sox seem to do a nice job developing them...position players? hitters??

That's another story isn't it?

Lip
Not directed at you Lip, but some people just love to rip on all things Sox - the team, the management, the ballpark, (and in this case) the prospects and they seem to also take special pleasure ripping on Sox fans.

While I don't think fans/posters should be blind to and gloss over problems. I just wonder about the motives for those I described. (Begin the ad hominen attacks)
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  #38  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:13 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Doctor:

Will all respect I don't think Axelrod is anything speacial and unfortunately we've seen what's happened to Jones from last year to this one.

I think Kittle's general point is valid. The Sox especially compared to other other teams seems to have very, very few guys who can come up out of the system and have a good solid major league career.

Also it's worth nothing that the players you mention are all pitchers, the Sox seem to do a nice job developing them...position players? hitters??

That's another story isn't it?

Lip
I always have faith the Sox will be able to put together a decent pitching staff on an annual basis. This organization has done a pretty good job of getting production out of pitchers other teams gave up on (Quintana), and they've also gotten decent major-league innings out of guys who were considered marginal prospects (Santiago) or not prospects at all (Axelrod).

The Sox currently rank third in the American League in pitching. Usually, teams that are near the top of the league in pitching at least have a puncher's chance of getting into the postseason. Most people don't feel this team has much hope because, well, the position players are so awful.

I don't believe the organization is headed into a five-year abyss of misery for the simple fact that they have pitching in place, and there do appear to be a few useful arms on the way in the minors.

Unfortunately, the current group of position players is subpar to say the least, and there doesn't seem to be any help coming from within the organization. Maybe Phegley. Maybe Sanchez. Maybe Thompson. Those are big maybes, too, and after that, it's bleak.
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  #39  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:44 PM
hawkjt hawkjt is offline
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I always have faith the Sox will be able to put together a decent pitching staff on an annual basis. This organization has done a pretty good job of getting production out of pitchers other teams gave up on (Quintana), and they've also gotten decent major-league innings out of guys who were considered marginal prospects (Santiago) or not prospects at all (Axelrod).

The Sox currently rank third in the American League in pitching. Usually, teams that are near the top of the league in pitching at least have a puncher's chance of getting into the postseason. Most people don't feel this team has much hope because, well, the position players are so awful.

I don't believe the organization is headed into a five-year abyss of misery for the simple fact that they have pitching in place, and there do appear to be a few useful arms on the way in the minors.

Unfortunately, the current group of position players is subpar to say the least, and there doesn't seem to be any help coming from within the organization. Maybe Phegley. Maybe Sanchez. Maybe Thompson. Those are big maybes, too, and after that, it's bleak.

The current roster has to come to the rescue. If they do not come back to their career averages, Sox are screwed. But, too early to declare this team dead right now.....4 games back in the loss column on May 29 is not beyond overcoming the next 113 games.
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  #40  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:56 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Seems like I've been hearing for years that the Sox system has nothing. Then the Sox bring up guys like Reed, Axelrod, Jones, Quintana.
Reed is good. I wouldn't classify the rest as stars by any stretch. Ax is lucky to be a 5th starter. Jones?!

The point being, even with some good minor league role players, and a star closer, they have little else, and need to spend smart money on FAs.
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  #41  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:57 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Of course you think it's valid. You've headed the Doom and Gloom Committee for a decade.

Axelrod doesn't have to be "special." He has to continue to give us quality starts at the 5th spot. If he doesn't, Johnson isn't that far off. Or, Santiago takes his spot.

Also, this same team, minus AJ, scored more runs than last year's Tigers, correct? We aren't good, but certainly better than we've played. We won't out-slug anyone, but still have a pitcher's chance at making some noise.
I thought we were talking about offense, anyway. We are fine with assuming our pitching is solid.
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  #42  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:58 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by DrCrawdad View Post
Not directed at you Lip, but some people just love to rip on all things Sox - the team, the management, the ballpark, (and in this case) the prospects and they seem to also take special pleasure ripping on Sox fans.

While I don't think fans/posters should be blind to and gloss over problems. I just wonder about the motives for those I described. (Begin the ad hominen attacks)
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  #43  
Old 05-29-2013, 01:25 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Yeah, and even as absolutely dreadful as the Sox have looked this year, they're still basically right in the middle of the MLB (#17 of 30) in terms of winning percentage.

No one is arguing the team's very good this year, but some of the doom and gloom around here is a little over the top dramatic. But to each their own.
Agree. We just need to spend some cash on multi-tool hitters this offseason. Konerko's $13.5, Floyd's $9.5 and Crain's $4.5 could go a long way, even more so if we can find a taker for or bite the bullet on Dunn...
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  #44  
Old 05-29-2013, 01:30 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
I always have faith the Sox will be able to put together a decent pitching staff on an annual basis. This organization has done a pretty good job of getting production out of pitchers other teams gave up on (Quintana), and they've also gotten decent major-league innings out of guys who were considered marginal prospects (Santiago) or not prospects at all (Axelrod).

The Sox currently rank third in the American League in pitching. Usually, teams that are near the top of the league in pitching at least have a puncher's chance of getting into the postseason. Most people don't feel this team has much hope because, well, the position players are so awful.

I don't believe the organization is headed into a five-year abyss of misery for the simple fact that they have pitching in place, and there do appear to be a few useful arms on the way in the minors.

Unfortunately, the current group of position players is subpar to say the least, and there doesn't seem to be any help coming from within the organization. Maybe Phegley. Maybe Sanchez. Maybe Thompson. Those are big maybes, too, and after that, it's bleak.
Careful JB or Taylor will think you've joined the doom and gloom committee!

I guess some folks are satisfied averaging 84 wins since 2001 with two post season appearances...so be it. They are certainly entitled to that opinion.

Lip
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  #45  
Old 05-29-2013, 01:41 PM
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Agree. We just need to spend some cash on multi-tool hitters this offseason. Konerko's $13.5, Floyd's $9.5 and Crain's $4.5 could go a long way, even more so if we can find a taker for or bite the bullet on Dunn...
No one is going to take Dunn, people just need to accept that reality. I think everyone needs to realize that Hahn has this team in a circle pattern for the time being, waiting out some of the high priced vets contracts and/or seeing if they can be moved for anything. Rios's contract is no longer an anchor now that he's A) one of the best outfielders in the AL and B) only on the hook for another season. Peavy's deal is very team friendly now. Konerko, Floyd, Dunn, Thornton, Peavy, and Rios are all probably gone by the end of 2014.

I know it sucks right now and I'm not telling people that they have to think like I do or even think I'm not completely crazy, but there's going to be a lot of roster turnover around here in the next few years and hopefully the Sox will still have the pitching that it won't be as painful a rebirth as some think it will be.
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