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  #31  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:13 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Heh, remember in March when everyone threw a **** fit because they had the audacity to pick the Sox to finish last in the Central? Those were the days.
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  #32  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:21 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post


Heh, remember in March when everyone threw a **** fit because they had the audacity to pick the Sox to finish last in the Central? Those were the days.

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  #33  
Old 08-05-2013, 05:44 AM
QCIASOXFAN QCIASOXFAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain54 View Post
what hasnt been mentioned is how the rest of the division, with the exception of Minnesota, got better..
This is true at the moment, but the Twins have the best farm system in baseball right now. If you haven't heard of Miguel Sano or Byron Buxton yet, well you will. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
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  #34  
Old 08-05-2013, 06:45 AM
soxfan1965 soxfan1965 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
I'd like to compare this to the 67-68 seasons when in 67 we led the AL for most of the season and lost 5 games in a row to the 2 worst teams in the last week, much like last years meltdown. In 68 the team fell from one of the best to one of the worst much like this year, same thing then, no one saw it coming. In some respects 68 was a bigger shocker because the White Sox were always contenders with 17 straight winning seasons and some like me had never seen a White Sox losing season.
I was thinking the exact thing, 67 to 68. They were probably overachieving in 67 and years before and skeptical Cub fans told me that Sox win too many games by 1 run in low scoring games. In 68 it caught up with them. Sox probably overachieved in 2012 and caught up with them at end of season like 67 and full blown in 2013/1968.

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Originally Posted by fungo bat View Post
So much for blaming Guillen, or Walker. The real fault lies with the front office, specifically Williams.....Somehow Williams got himself kicked upstairs. Granted, he made some good moves over the years. And he deserves partial credit for the championship of 2005. But for every good move he's made, he's made plenty of bad decisions. This year's debacle can be traced back to Williams depleting the farm system over the years in an attempt to keep the Sox consistently competitive vs. shifting into a rebuilding mode. The Sox are now paying the price for this decision.
You nailed it! To restate the obvious, I would add writing bad contracts, assuming bad contracts or contracts with poor return due to injury/bad timing. Although a different sport and with salary cap, you have to admire the way Blackhawks management made some surgical moves shortly after winning their Stanley Cup in 2010 and again in 2013, separated from emotion. Theo & team are probably doing the same and let's hope Hahn is too to first clean up the mess and establish his own well-thought long term plan. Having said all that, thanks Kenny for 2005, would rather have one great season and 8 misses (2006-2013) than 8 above average seasons (like the 1960-1967 Sox).
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  #35  
Old 08-05-2013, 06:57 AM
Zakath Zakath is offline
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Considering that we were a .500 team on May 26, no.

Since then, we haven't had a winning streak longer than 3 games, while having 5 losing streaks longer than that (2 4's, a 5, an 8, and now the 10).
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  #36  
Old 08-05-2013, 07:36 AM
Jurr Jurr is offline
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I just knew that this product was so entirely stale that I was apathetic about the whole season. I still have not watched a complete game this year, which is a lifetime first.

I figured they would suck. Sucking is usually the 72 win variety, not this.
I am discouraged that they failed to trade off more players. I am encouraged by the fact that they will most likely can Ventura by season's end.

I want to like my baseball team again, and haven't for a while.
I'm glad the product is about to change.
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  #37  
Old 08-05-2013, 08:00 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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I don't remember if I picked the Sox to be last or to be second to last ahead of Minnesota, but I've been saying they'll be horrible for a while.
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  #38  
Old 08-05-2013, 09:35 AM
Procol Harum Procol Harum is offline
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Thought they would probably be mediocre, but pegged that somewhere in the .500 range--never thought it would unravel like this.

Little Nell's thoughts about '67/'68 are on target, although we're running behind the '68 team at this point. For we old-timers, let's hope that '14 and '15 don't reflect our experiences in '69 and '70....
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  #39  
Old 08-05-2013, 09:50 AM
cws05champ cws05champ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
I don't remember if I picked the Sox to be last or to be second to last ahead of Minnesota, but I've been saying they'll be horrible for a while.
Really?? That sounds nothing like you....
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  #40  
Old 08-05-2013, 09:59 AM
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BedfordChisox BedfordChisox is offline
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I certainly didn't see this train wreck coming. In light of the surprising 2012 performance, I was inspired to write a message here last September extolling the future. In retrospect, that post was so mind-numbingly stupid, I have been tempted to change my user name just to avoid any association with it.

Belated kudos to those of you who tried to set me straight with your responses to that posting. There were quite a few of you.
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  #41  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:45 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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In 1976 the White Sox were 64-97. The manager of the team, Paul Richards said at the end of the season that the team was the worse team he ever managed in his career. Looking back at it, I find it amazing they didn't lose 110 games. They couldn't pitch, throw, catch or hit. Talent wise it was much worse than the 2013 White Sox. After the 1976 season the White Sox acquired 3 good hitters,(good not great hitters) Zisk, Gamble and Soderholm. The 1977 White Sox won 90 games. The only thing that team could do was hit. It couldn't pitch, catch or throw. If the 1977 White Sox had the 2013 White Sox pitching staff they would of been in the playoffs. The point I'm trying to make is I'm optimistic about the White Sox future. With this pitching staff the team needs at least 3 more hitters to contend next year. There in much better shape trying to obtain hitters than what they would be if they were trying to obtain 3 starting pitchers. The only thing keeping me going the rest of this season is I'm hoping they bring up Garcia and Johnson sooner rather than later.

Last edited by Golden Sox; 08-09-2013 at 11:05 AM.
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  #42  
Old 08-05-2013, 11:04 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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I don't think that Williams trying to keep the team competitive was really the problem.
I think the problem is really more bad scouting, bad player development, coaching and bad trades.
Bad scouting in the sense that we weren't getting much quality from our farm system. Bad scouting in the sense that these prospects we traded for, and we always seemed to zero in on one prospect, were duds: Flowers, Stewart, Castro(Castro may end up being okay but likely nothing special - heck he should be in our pen right now), Molina, the 3 players we got from the Yankees for Swisher.
And then there were bad trades. When we were dumping veterans, we seemed to zero-in on one prospect, rather than get back the best package we could. some looked like utter give-aways. When we traded our veterans, however, we loaded the wagon - 3 of our top 5 prospects for Nick Swisher; our two top pitching prospects for Edwin Jackson, only to flip him for nothing.
And our farm yielded nothing in position players except for Beckham whom we rushed. Pitching was much better. But even that, while development has been good on the top end, doesn't have a lot of depth (we have only 2 developed pitchers in our bullpen).
We've had one highly regarded coach through this time - Cooper. It shows.
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  #43  
Old 08-05-2013, 11:08 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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I wasn't a fan of KW, but other than Gio, who ultimately did he dump from the minors that if he had kept, would have made a difference? He didn't devastate the minor league system by trading guys away, he devasted it by not drafting well and/or poor development. His trades overall actually added to its value, not detracted.
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  #44  
Old 08-05-2013, 11:08 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I think the answer is yes and no. Yes, I expected the Sox to be bad this year. No, I did not expect the Sox to be THIS BAD.

But when you are below average offensively at 6 or 7 of the 9 positions, you are doomed. Especially when you are not trading offense for defense at most of those.

Realistically, Lets Say Garcia is the solution in RF and Rios is fine in LF, We need a new C, 1b, 3b, DH, maybe CF, maybe SS, maybe 2b.

There really is not 1 guy on this team you feel great about being on this team next year offensively outside Garcia (who is a prospect) and Gordon (who is your 9 hitter).
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  #45  
Old 08-05-2013, 11:39 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I think the answer is yes and no. Yes, I expected the Sox to be bad this year. No, I did not expect the Sox to be THIS BAD.

But when you are below average offensively at 6 or 7 of the 9 positions, you are doomed. Especially when you are not trading offense for defense at most of those.

Realistically, Lets Say Garcia is the solution in RF and Rios is fine in LF, We need a new C, 1b, 3b, DH, maybe CF, maybe SS, maybe 2b.

There really is not 1 guy on this team you feel great about being on this team next year offensively outside Garcia (who is a prospect) and Gordon (who is your 9 hitter).
Look at the yankees. They have 2 hitters with OPS+ over 100; we have 3. The Royals have 3. The Rangers and Diamondbacks have 4.
Why are those teams over .500 and we're 29 below? It's not hitting.
Defense, baserunning, and something we haven't talked much about - bullpen (another area where lack of depth in the farm really hurts - we can't even fill our bullpen with farmhands and we really have only 2 respectable pieces in our pen right now).
Not that our hitting doesn't need to improve. It does by a lot. but in the meantime, get some defensive players in here to play C, SS and CF in the offseason (we should be able to get someone like Chris Young on the cheap), get some coaching, and bring up Castro and some others for auditions for the pen.
Jettison Rios (no power anymore), Alexei if we can. I'd tend to keep DeAza and let him play left where defense won't hurt as bad (deal him if someone would give us value, which they might - not a bad hitter). Find a defensive catcher.
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